Thanks for proving my point.

It seems to me that all the people who speak out against "Fahrenheit 9/11" never say anything to refute any of the statements made in the movie...all they can manage to do is turn their attacks onto Moore himself. They criticise the fact that the movie is onesided, yet do not present any arguments responding to the issues he raises.

You're welcome.

It may be hard work to rape a woman, and then skin her alive and chop her up into little pieces too, but that doesn't make the act any less heinous.

ok...that was a bit over the top...but you get my meaning...

"It's the easiest thing in the world to sit back and look at the hard work someone else has done, then criticize it as being rubbish."

...especially when it IS rubbish.

Orpheus wrote: "Imagine if a "man" like Moore was your president during WW2? Then europe would be either nazist or communist today."

While Hitler was trouncing across Europe, the US didn't lift a finger. It wasn't until the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor that the US became involved in the war. If Pearl Harbor wasn't attacked, who knows what would have happened. Maybe the US would have never entered the war.

The main difference here is that in WWII, the US was BOMBED....there was no need for debate about evidence, or a need for proof that there was an immediate threat. With the Iraq war, the US invaded a country on very flawed "evidence"....evidence that the UN decided was inconclusive and did not justify military action. Nevertheless, Bush condemned the UN...condemned Russia and France for being selfinterested...and INVADED and OCCUPIED a country without a single shred of evidence that they constituted an immediate threat to them.

As far as Michael Moore goes, if he was around during WWII, he could have made a movie about how Thomas Watson and the IBM corporation colluded with the Nazis by creating machines for them that enabled them to catalog and identify Jews so that they could more efficiently be corralled together and be expediantly exterminated.

As a matter of fact, it is quite conceivable that in the 1930's, when computers didn't exist, the extermination of millions of Jews could not have been accomplished with the deadly precision and swiftness that it did without the cooperation of IBM.

You see?....even back then, corporations looked past any sense of ethics and made deals with criminals and terrorists for the sake of profit, without any concern for the lives of innocent people.

John,

No offense, but I think Orpheus' point is completely relevant. The point being that a "complainer" does nothing more than that, and has not the mental capacity, nor the intestinal fortitude to be a leader! It's the easiest thing in the world to sit back and look at the hard work someone else has done, then criticize it as being rubbish. Not to mention the fact that a "film" (or so called documentary in Moore's case) can be manipulated to favor a specific perspective. So many people seem to be siding with Moore, and acclaiming him as some sort of hero. What exactly has he done for the country? Is the country (or the world for that matter) any better off because of "Bowling For Columbine", "Fahrenheit 9/11" or any other of Moore's movies? There's a reason his movies are referred to as "mockumentaries". Moore has now allied himself with Howard Stern (big surprise there) yet another person that does nothing but complain about "what's wrong with the country", but offer no suggestions, or positive input to a solution!

Sorry, it's easy to get long winded on these types of discussions. I'm trying to keep them to a short/medium wind. Any way. I guess I'm one of only a few here at DVD Town (or in the country for that matter) that see's through Moore's manipulative rhetoric.

To use your own Stalin analogy John, are people just siding with Moore to alie against Bush? The lesser of two evils?:o

- Josh

Please note, Orpheus, that during and just after WWII, we had a couple of the strongest Presidents the country has ever known, Franklin Roosevelt and Truman. Yet during the War, Roosevelt allied America with Communist Russia and with Stalin, an even worse mass murderer than Hitler; and after the War, Truman and Winston Churchill allowed Stalin to annex most of Eastern Europe as Communist satellite states.

What would Moore have done during WWII? It's a totally moot and irrevelant question compared to what actually DID happen.

John

BRILLIANT observation Orpheus!