KP,

I've been very happy with my 7700. But I did try Sony's top-of-the-line progressive player in my system only to discover that my Sony XBR400 television was not capable of reproducing a progressive-scan picture (even though it will reproduce most high-definition numbers). Anyway, I never found out if the progressive-scan player was better.

In any case, the combination of my XBR's line doubling along with the 7700 produces a darned good picture that will suffice nicely until HD arrives.

John

KP, that's the other thing...we all need to upgrade our 4:3 TVs eventually, so it's really best to wait to see what the real standard for HD will be (780 or 1024). The federal mandate that everything should be broadcast in HD is always being pushed back year after year, so... :p

That's a great point, but my T.V. is an over 13 years old hand-me-down, and I'm getting antsy. It does have an S-Video input (a bold new enhancement for S-VHS VCRs at the time of purchase), but most cable programs are in higher resolution than it can display; for example, I can't read the scrolling bars on the news channels, and I can't see sports updates. It's a real drag.

I'm not interested in HD programming at the moment, but I am interested in making my DVD's look as good as possible. I'm thinking about plunking down for an HD-Ready and DVI capable direct view TV, and pairing it with the Samsung DVD-HD931 DVD player. It has a DVI output and a faroudja chip that up-converts the DVD signal to 480p, 720p, or 1080i (user selectable on the front of the unit). Of course, the source is still DVD, so the source is limited and there's no way it will be HD-DVD quality, but many on the AVSForum have said that the difference in quality using the DVI output at 720p or 1080i is so dramatic that it's sometimes comparable to HBO or Showtime's HD broadcasts (which are apparently somewhat sub-par for HD Broadcasts, as I understand).

The theory is that since there are no digital to analog conversions in the DVD player that would be required for composite, s-video, or component outputs, the output is just the straight digital source from the DVD to the TV. No "enhancements", degradation, or compression from the player's D to A converters, just simply the 1's and 0's of what's on the DVD. And it can be had on the net for around $250.

Does this all sound wrong? I'm kind of a video neophyte. But, it may be worth an audition. I may cart my 7700 down to the dealer and do a side by side comparison on a DVI-Capable TV.

KP, it sounds like you're in the market for a new TV, then, and not necessarily a new DVD player. :)

I would be careful about buying the Samsung DVD player with a DVI output. I think that that player is the first on the market with a DVI output, and it's never really a good idea to buy the first of anything (too many bugs, eventual compatability issues, etc.). Who knows? Maybe DVI will be ruled illegal one day (as has been suggested elsewhere in this Forum).

Again how can a player output 1080i from SD-DVDs. A resolution of 720 x 480 is encoded on the disc. No matter how good the player is the movie is encoded on the disc and whatever resolution is on the disc will be displayed. Can someone explain this to me.

What does it matter, if his TV can't interpret it? Riddle me this, genius.

KP, you spent a lot of time explaining stuff to a guy who wrote, "Digital is better" in response to what I wrote about film offering more resolution than digital video. I appreciate what I learned from your post, but don't be surprised if Jimmy comes back with "Progressive scan is better". LOL. :D

Jimmy,

First off, the whole argument of outputting 1080i from an SD-DVD player doesn't really matter if you do not have a display that is native 720p, 1080i, or even 480p. Otherwise it's the same argument as John mentioned above, you'll just get the same 480i image that's on the DVD.

BUT, if you do have the display equipment and you use the DVI output on new DVI DVD players like the Samsung 931 or the Bravo D1, there is a built in scaler in these players that up-converts the 480i DVD signal to 720p, 1080i, or 480p (your choice from a switch on the front of unit) WHILE STILL IN THE DIGITAL DOMAIN by adding some resolution to the image. Indeed, it cannot increase the resoluton that is on the disc, so it will NEVER look as good as an HD-DVD or D-VHS would. But a good scaler can make a lower resolution image (like a DVD) look better in higher resolutions (like John's line doubler on his tv--it's just a scaler too).

Here's an example of increasing image resolution using computers that may help out: If ever you have a picture inserted in an MS Word document or some other program, and you click it and grab it by the handles and expand it, you are effectively scaling the image to a higher resolution (say from 200x200 to 400x400), just as these HT scalers in TV's or DVD players do to the DVD image. When you do this, MS Word is adding information to the image to make it bigger. HOWEVER, scaling or increasing your image size in MS Word may result in a more blocky image than say if you scaled the image in a dedicated photo program like Photoshop because the two programs add pixels in different ways to get it to the size that you want. Photoshop is tuned for upscaling, and even gives you a choice when upscaling of how you want the new pixels to be added. Therefore the results are often clearer images of the original lower-resolution pictures at higher resolutons from Photoshop than from MS Word. That is how image resolution is increased, and the importance of a good quality scaler or image converter.

So what does that mean with DVI DVD players such as the Samsung 931 or the Bravo D1? Well, it's more desirable to have equipment re-sample the image as few times as possible to get to the image size/quality you want (too many cooks...). So here's what happens if you have a progressive scan DVD player using component outputs and a digital tv that is native 480p, 720p or 1080i:

* DVD player de-interlaces (scales) the 480i image to 480p
* Player converts the digital image to analog (RGB, component)
* The TV takes the Analog signal and converts it to digital
* The TV scales the image to it's native resolution
* TV displays image.

Well, if you use DVI and a player like the 931 (which requires an HDCP compliant DVI display) or the Bravo (which will work on non-HDCP DVI connections) than you bypass a couple of those steps:

* The player scales the 480i image to 1080i, 720p, or 480p, whichever is the native resolution of your display (based on what selection you made on the player).
* The signal (while still digital) is sent through the DVI connection in its native resolution.
* TV displays image. No more conversion is needed.

I have never seen this in action, so I can't report on how much difference all this makes in the real world. But from what's been reported by several people on other boards, even 480p looks better using DVI than even high quality component progressive players like the Panny RP91. And it's also reported that using 720p or 1080i output on the player makes an eye-popping difference. The Samsung uses a Faroudja scaler which supposedly is outstanding.

One quick note, only buy one of those players if you plan on using DVI! Apparently all the engineering went to the DVI, and the D to A converters and component output sucks. Buy another player if using component output.

You're probably not still reading. Wake up. I'm done. Anyway, none of this matters to me, because I have a crappy t.v., and I agree with Eddie that that's my primary concern right now.

KP

Amazon.com has a article on how this player works. I was very intrested I find how in increases picture. It explained everything. It increases picture with three methods.

DVI Inputs - The first true digital inputs. Composite, S-video, and component are all analog. Being digital makes them the best. When switched on 480p the player will go through Digital to analog conversion then go out trough the DVI inputs resulting in slightly better picture. Being switched to 720p or 1080i will activate the two chips.

DNIe Chips - This chip reproduces the image digitaly. That makes sure there is no digital to analog conversion and the image stays digital from the disc to the DVI inputs. Resulting in the cleanest picture possible.

FLI2310 Chip - Since the original source of a DVD title is usually a movie made from film reels, it produces 24 frames per second and requires a conversion to a 60-field video signal of 30 frames (NTSC) per second when viewing a DVD title on TV. In order to compensate 6 frames, a 3:2 pulldown process is required. Pulldown is most closely related to de-interlacing. De-interlacing is a conversion to progressive scan video which enhances resolution for better picture quality. It is required for a progressive scan display device. With the built-in FLI2310 chip inside the DVD-HD931, the disruptions that may occur during the de-interlacing process are reduced by motion-adaptive, cross-color supressor, and content adaptive features. This ensures even more impressive crisp and vivid imaging. Motion adaptive technologies produce the finest progressive output available. They detect the amount of motion and use an appropriate mix of spatial and temporal processing with the highest resolution for still areas that have no motion artifacts in moving areas.

All three things combined result in better picture then a normal progressive scan.

Amazon.com, champion of the Segue. A reliable tech source if I've ever heard one. Amazon would shill Betamax players, if they thought they could sell some.