Wednesday, April 26, 2006
Member since:
April 2006
April 2006
I have been keeping an impatient eye on HD-DVD and I'm curious to what people are getting with this new player. I noticed that one member is using a Toshiba 52HM95 which displays at a beautiful 720p…like many of us. I am in a similar situation with a projector (Panasonic PT Ae900U)...GET TO THE POINT!
OK! My concern is that the player is unable to process 1080p therefore it will use 1080i or 540p (no difference prior to display) and up-convert it to 720p. I'm sure this makes for a beautiful image, but I think that the manufacturers (in this case Toshiba) are having us believe that will get something more.
Even prior to the release of this HD player a good progressive DVD player would play 480p and if you had a decent up-conversion system(HTPC or decent DVD player) this could be up converted to 720p to play on your monitor or my projector with similar results...note that I said similar. The ultimate difference here it would seem would be 480p to 540p.
Don't get me wrong, this is still an up grade but I have a feeling that this first model, to most eyes, will look no different than a good progressive scan DVD player that is able to up-convert to 720p.
Rumor has it that several of the "go-to" sites for audio-video review have been disappinted by the results.
Is it to early to say? Is the Toshiba player a quick push to the market that will leave us"demanding-consumers" feeling unsatisfied?
Please, constructive comments only. I understand that it is hard to remain neutral when you just bought a piece of equipment, but lets get the details on this new player. What is the difference from your progressive scan DVD player? ie overscan underscan, details, jaggies or artifact, etc.
thanx
OK! My concern is that the player is unable to process 1080p therefore it will use 1080i or 540p (no difference prior to display) and up-convert it to 720p. I'm sure this makes for a beautiful image, but I think that the manufacturers (in this case Toshiba) are having us believe that will get something more.
Even prior to the release of this HD player a good progressive DVD player would play 480p and if you had a decent up-conversion system(HTPC or decent DVD player) this could be up converted to 720p to play on your monitor or my projector with similar results...note that I said similar. The ultimate difference here it would seem would be 480p to 540p.
Don't get me wrong, this is still an up grade but I have a feeling that this first model, to most eyes, will look no different than a good progressive scan DVD player that is able to up-convert to 720p.
Rumor has it that several of the "go-to" sites for audio-video review have been disappinted by the results.
Is it to early to say? Is the Toshiba player a quick push to the market that will leave us"demanding-consumers" feeling unsatisfied?
Please, constructive comments only. I understand that it is hard to remain neutral when you just bought a piece of equipment, but lets get the details on this new player. What is the difference from your progressive scan DVD player? ie overscan underscan, details, jaggies or artifact, etc.
thanx
Wednesday, April 26, 2006
Member since:
March 2002
March 2002
"What you may be surprised by is that 540p doesn't look much different than 1080i." --enochru
Uh, 540x960 lines of pixels = 518,400 total pixels on screen.
1080x1920 lines of pixels = 2,073,600 total pixels on screen.
Between the two, that's a difference of almost four times the potential number of pixels on screen at any given time, no matter how they're displayed (progressive or interlaced). And it doesn't look much different?
I guess we all see differently, but to me the number of pixels involved determines the detail in a picture. Having watched good HD cable broadcasts in my home for years, and now watching HD-DVD, I can say, yes, for me it makes a difference. For others, maybe not.
John
Uh, 540x960 lines of pixels = 518,400 total pixels on screen.
1080x1920 lines of pixels = 2,073,600 total pixels on screen.
Between the two, that's a difference of almost four times the potential number of pixels on screen at any given time, no matter how they're displayed (progressive or interlaced). And it doesn't look much different?
I guess we all see differently, but to me the number of pixels involved determines the detail in a picture. Having watched good HD cable broadcasts in my home for years, and now watching HD-DVD, I can say, yes, for me it makes a difference. For others, maybe not.
John
Wednesday, April 26, 2006
Member since:
March 2002
March 2002
um, peter jackson and andrew lesnie shot "lotr" with film cameras with 35mm film and the super35 process, not with hd cameras.
Wednesday, April 26, 2006
Member since:
April 2006
April 2006
I had a huge response explaining my original question but for some reason it didn't take. Oh well!
Anyway, the bottom line is that 1080/60p is nowhere near public released evidently, And for those who have been lucky enough to see it explain it is a dramatic upgrade from what is currently available. the size of the files needed for 1080/60 as opposed to 24fps is over twice the size.
the bottom line with the Toshiba HD DVD player is that offers a little taste low-end HD. For all those with 720p displays you may be underwhelmed. A good HTPC or high end dvd player may have provided you with a simplar image--depending on your set-up. The HD player ultimately converts the dvd info to 540p then upconverts to 720p to be displayed. And lets face this is an entry-level machine(as well as first generation).
The information recoded by the HD cameras for movies such as LOTR has alot more information than what is "dummied down" and presented by this new player. I'm sure it displays a beautiful image, but as far as I'm concerned, I'll stick with up-converting 480p and wait until a player come out that displays 1080p. At least it may have the ability to down convert to 720p directly. Or by that time maybe Panasonic will have a PT AE1080u--if you know what I mean.
Also I have communicated with someone who has had a preproduction blu-ray player. He had it hooked up to a 1080p projector. He commented that it was not a subtle difference. There will be no question when you see it. I don't think he was choosing sides(blu-ray vs HDDVD). He was commenting more on the 1080p image. I would love to see it!
Now this is not knocking poeple who have invested on a new HD dvd player. If the price came down I might even consider it for my Mits WS 48511. Even though it only has component hook-up. 540p is not bad. What you may be surprised by is that 540p doesn't look much different than 1080i.
This is just the begining. It will only get better.
MORE UPGRADES PLEASE!
Anyway, the bottom line is that 1080/60p is nowhere near public released evidently, And for those who have been lucky enough to see it explain it is a dramatic upgrade from what is currently available. the size of the files needed for 1080/60 as opposed to 24fps is over twice the size.
the bottom line with the Toshiba HD DVD player is that offers a little taste low-end HD. For all those with 720p displays you may be underwhelmed. A good HTPC or high end dvd player may have provided you with a simplar image--depending on your set-up. The HD player ultimately converts the dvd info to 540p then upconverts to 720p to be displayed. And lets face this is an entry-level machine(as well as first generation).
The information recoded by the HD cameras for movies such as LOTR has alot more information than what is "dummied down" and presented by this new player. I'm sure it displays a beautiful image, but as far as I'm concerned, I'll stick with up-converting 480p and wait until a player come out that displays 1080p. At least it may have the ability to down convert to 720p directly. Or by that time maybe Panasonic will have a PT AE1080u--if you know what I mean.
Also I have communicated with someone who has had a preproduction blu-ray player. He had it hooked up to a 1080p projector. He commented that it was not a subtle difference. There will be no question when you see it. I don't think he was choosing sides(blu-ray vs HDDVD). He was commenting more on the 1080p image. I would love to see it!
Now this is not knocking poeple who have invested on a new HD dvd player. If the price came down I might even consider it for my Mits WS 48511. Even though it only has component hook-up. 540p is not bad. What you may be surprised by is that 540p doesn't look much different than 1080i.
This is just the begining. It will only get better.
MORE UPGRADES PLEASE!
Wednesday, April 26, 2006
Member since:
March 2002
March 2002
The Toshiba HD-A1 and HD-XA1 will output a 480p, 720p, or 1080i signal. You just choose your resolution at the touch of a button. If it's not the disc's native resolution, it will up-convert or down-convert it.
John
John
Wednesday, April 26, 2006
Member since:
April 2006
April 2006
Isn't he talking about how the Toshiba's HD DVD will process HD to his projector? If I'm not mistaken I read my friend's manual and you choose your resolution you like with your remote control. And wouldn't it downconvert to 720p? I'm not super sure because the manual is not in front of me.....but if you want an opinion on the player I think it's phenominal! It looks incredible on his Zenith 50" plasma screen!
Hugs,
rev2006:p
Hugs,
rev2006:p
Wednesday, April 26, 2006
Member since:
March 2002
March 2002
enochru,
It's a little hard to understand what you're asking. Are you asking about an HD-DVD's picture quality in 1080i compared to the same movie's picture quality from a standard, 480 disc? Or are you talking about how well an HD-DVD player will up-convert a standard-definition disc to 720p or 1080i?
In the former case, 1080 vs. 480 lines make a difference that almost anyone can see. I've been watching excellent 1080 HD broadcasts on cable for some years now, and the picture from a 1080i HD-DVD is just as good and in most cases better: sharper, clearer, cleaner. I have yet to see any evidence of digital artifacts in the HD-DVD picture: certainly no jagged edges or moire effects or added grain.
Will every HD television display an HD picture that looks significantly improved over 480? That's for your own eyes to determine; and it's a matter of your HD television. If your HD television is big, it will probably reveal more detail in HD; if your HD television displays 1080 rather than just 720, it will probably reveal more; if your HD television has an extra-fine dot pitch, it will probably display more.
About the Toshiba's up-converting: It seems to be on a par with most other machines that up-convert, except that it is able to upconvert to 1080 (not really, of course, because all up-conversion is done with smoke and mirrors, but you know what I mean).
John
It's a little hard to understand what you're asking. Are you asking about an HD-DVD's picture quality in 1080i compared to the same movie's picture quality from a standard, 480 disc? Or are you talking about how well an HD-DVD player will up-convert a standard-definition disc to 720p or 1080i?
In the former case, 1080 vs. 480 lines make a difference that almost anyone can see. I've been watching excellent 1080 HD broadcasts on cable for some years now, and the picture from a 1080i HD-DVD is just as good and in most cases better: sharper, clearer, cleaner. I have yet to see any evidence of digital artifacts in the HD-DVD picture: certainly no jagged edges or moire effects or added grain.
Will every HD television display an HD picture that looks significantly improved over 480? That's for your own eyes to determine; and it's a matter of your HD television. If your HD television is big, it will probably reveal more detail in HD; if your HD television displays 1080 rather than just 720, it will probably reveal more; if your HD television has an extra-fine dot pitch, it will probably display more.
About the Toshiba's up-converting: It seems to be on a par with most other machines that up-convert, except that it is able to upconvert to 1080 (not really, of course, because all up-conversion is done with smoke and mirrors, but you know what I mean).
John
Thursday, April 27, 2006
Member since:
April 2006
April 2006
Response #1: I'm not sure about LOTR; replace that w/ star wars. 1080/24p on episode II I'm not sure about what Jackson used for LOTR. Sorry about that. Late night response should have waited until morning.
Response #2: Puccio said
"Uh, 540x960 lines of pixels = 518,400 total pixels on screen.
1080x1920 lines of pixels = 2,073,600 total pixels on screen.
Between the two, that's a difference of almost four times the potential number of pixels on screen at any given time, no matter how they're displayed (progressive or interlaced). And it doesn't look much different?"
Remember we are talking interlaced images. Now when we are talking 1080p you have an excellent point, and from what i have been told, a dramatic one.
All I can do is encourage you to test it. An easy way to do that is drag your friends(the ones that are interested into electronic) in front of the TV and play the same HD DVD in 1080i(via HDMI) then in 540p(via component). the latest excuse I had herd from an aquantance that tried this is that the component out put is 1080i as well. b/c they coudn't tell the difference of course. But according to Toshiba 540p is what you should get from the component. LOL
At the same time I don't deny that the potential difference is there.
great respnoses! Some of these forums get people who just respond with hostility. Like I'm trying to bag o someone for buying a particular product. that cannot be further from the truth. My only goal is to find out the truth before I start buying.
Late!
Response #2: Puccio said
"Uh, 540x960 lines of pixels = 518,400 total pixels on screen.
1080x1920 lines of pixels = 2,073,600 total pixels on screen.
Between the two, that's a difference of almost four times the potential number of pixels on screen at any given time, no matter how they're displayed (progressive or interlaced). And it doesn't look much different?"
Remember we are talking interlaced images. Now when we are talking 1080p you have an excellent point, and from what i have been told, a dramatic one.
All I can do is encourage you to test it. An easy way to do that is drag your friends(the ones that are interested into electronic) in front of the TV and play the same HD DVD in 1080i(via HDMI) then in 540p(via component). the latest excuse I had herd from an aquantance that tried this is that the component out put is 1080i as well. b/c they coudn't tell the difference of course. But according to Toshiba 540p is what you should get from the component. LOL
At the same time I don't deny that the potential difference is there.
great respnoses! Some of these forums get people who just respond with hostility. Like I'm trying to bag o someone for buying a particular product. that cannot be further from the truth. My only goal is to find out the truth before I start buying.
Late!
Thursday, April 27, 2006
Member since:
April 2006
April 2006
Yunda Eddie Feng: you are the smart one. Super 35 was what was used for LOTR and then the film was scanned on two Imagica XE film scanners so that they could play it back in high definition promptly. Interesting reading! Sorry this had nothing to do with my post.;)
Thursday, April 27, 2006
Member since:
March 2002
March 2002
enochru,
Your acquaintance is right: the first four HD-DVDs from WB and Universal are not copy protected and not down-converted to 540. They produce the same 1080i signal from both the HDMI and component video outputs.
John
Your acquaintance is right: the first four HD-DVDs from WB and Universal are not copy protected and not down-converted to 540. They produce the same 1080i signal from both the HDMI and component video outputs.
John
