dump your political baggage right here

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DUMP YOUR POLITICAL BAGGAGE RIGHT HERE.


OK, now to respond to posters5 (staff)

WHAT THE...
politics!????:@
I reeeaaalllyy didn't expect that!
And what bad examples to use!

eddie:
Did ya hear Mr. Kerry asking for a hunting licensee the other day? I guess he thinks that hunters are folksy people, not intelligent people. What a pandering bigot! Did ya hear him talk about hunting before that, how he would go around in the woods ***on his belly, sneaking up on his prey?***
Did ya hear him ADMITTING he was a WAR CRIMINAL and accused his comrades of being war criminals too? Then the viet-cong used his statements to add to the torture of U.S. POW's and hung his picture up in honor for helping THEM?
I guess if you hate America and speak French you are considered intelligent.
EDDIE: Just because you disagree with someone, doesn't mean that person is not thoughtful.
Kerry and Bush went to the same school and belong (ed?) to the same secret society.
"the fact that being able to speak more than language is really a plus." But it does not help you as president, especially if you happen to be THE MOST LIBERAL senator in the U.S. Then they go see Mr. Moore's movie and believe all his lies.
Did you hear Mrs. Kerry say that Mrs. Bush never had a real job???? Did ya notice that every time she speaks somewhere, the polling numbers immediately go down a few points?
Did ya ever hear Jimmy Carter pronounce nuclear? "nucaler" Then he goes down to S. America with the U.N. to certify elections. The exit polls are the total opposite of the results and he says they are just fine. Then he fawns all over Castro. And people say he is the most intelligent, best ex-president ever!!!!!
Who won the cold war, Reagan or Carter? hmmmmmmmm???? Who produced a booming, low-inflation economy after inheriting the worst economy since the great depression?:p

I am not the biggest supporter of Bush and just may vote for Michael Peroutka.

Ya gotta love how politics brings out the "best" in people.

Personally, I can't wait to cast my vote, and get this over with. I'm tired of all of the mud slinging, name calling, and bickering. It would be interesting to see which election in the past has come closest to this one in how childishly it was run by both candidates. Obviously the debating of current issues won't end after the election, but at least it won't be in our faces 24/7 everywhere we go.

- Josh

Alright Eddie, allow me to go Socratic on your buttocks!! ;)

But did I insinuate that you were claiming that Kerry would do a better job than Bush? :D

Yes. :)

John:
"...what's wrong with being liberal? what's wrong with being liberal? It means that you look at both sides of the issues and make up your own mind about things, as opposed to marching lock step with your "conservative" friends.":p

What's wrong with being conservative? It means that you look at both sides of the issues and make up your own mind about things, as opposed to marching lock step with your "liberal" friends. :)

"Michael Moore admits his movie is propaganda, not straightforward new reporting, and as such it sometimes distorts the facts to his advantage. "

I would appreciate some straightforward reporting. It's a rare thing.

"Did you hear Mrs. Kerry immediately issue an apology, having forgotten that Mrs. Bush was once a school teacher? "

She is also a mom and The First Lady".

"you are now engaging in propaganda of the worst kind yourself by making things up? "

I didn't make any of this up, I don't go to GOP sites, and I rarely hear Rush.

Clinton did not inherit the worst economy since the great depression. It was Reagan? He turnd it around. Clinton inherited a very good economy.

"...spreading misinformation."

I am sorry you feel that way.

TGP:
If you are listening to your parents argue about this stuff, you are probably more informed than most.

"I am 16 and unregistered. So basically, my opinion does not matter at all for another 2 years, and I can't make a dent in the polls. "

You can make a difference in other ways like passing out info.

"If Arnold can be a governor, anything can happen. "

Did you notice how as soon as he announced his candidacy, every "news" show was all about him? I guess that's who they wanted to win, and he did.

Tim,
There were many statements among Democrats and Republicans stating Iraq had WMD's. Also, there have been no successful terrorist acts against America since 9/11. Before that, they were occuring fairly regularly. Bush didn't get Bin Laden, Roosevelt didn't get Hitler.

I'm not that impressed with Bush's economy, but I believe things would be worse under Kerry. Bush is trying to make the health insurance better, but he can't get the support because of the hysterical Dems and TV "news".

"Unemployment up at its highest compared to over ten years ago"

It's lower than Clinton's ave. rate.

"stem cell research"

Bush is the first President to allow this type of research. He has also thoughtfully considered the moral implications of this type of research.

Tim,
You do make good points. I probably won't vote for GWB either.
BTW, many of the votes cast for Bush were anti-Gore (Clinton/Gore) votes. Remember that when you are thinking of voting **against Bush**. Have you considered a third party?

posters5:

"I don't even know what I posted elsewhere that prompted this barrage of unsubstantiated invective from mra. In fact, prior to this thread, I had thought of him as one of the good guys. "

right here.......
DVD Town > Feedback > DVD Town... The Place To Be!

All I did was to ask why this forum is considered "elitist".


"mra,

in all seriousness, when people are civil these days, that's often mistaken for being "snobby". from where the heck people got that idea i dunno, but just look at our president, who substitutes folksiness for intelligence and thoughtfulness. being folksy is charming, yes, but charm is not substance. (n)

on the other hand, someone as educated as kerry is dismissed as a "french-lover", regardless of the fact that being able to speak more than one language is really a plus.

eddie"


"...one of the good guys..."8)
I guess I'm a little tired of all the politics. At least there is a topic now so there is no need to dump political opinions on topics randomly.

mra,

I'm registered as Independent, mainly because I believe our country needs more parties thus giving us more choices. In fact, if there were such a thing as having the ability to choose "none of the above" on a voting ballot, that's probably what I'd pick. I grow tired of every four years the same politicians making promises they can never keep. However, unfortunately, it always comes down to picking the lesser of the two evils. And at this time, Bush has had his chance and has failed miserably. As I said, I’m not saying Kerry is the answer to beat all, but I’m much more willing to take the risk on change than to let a proven idiot back into office.

Tim.

"Proven idiot"

Who has an advantage in an election? The inciumbent VP with an economy which had been booming and only started downwards for a short time. Gore should have won by ten points like Reagan.

Somehow this proven idiot pulled it off. And before you say he had smart people around him, just remember who picked those people.

"Clinton did not inherit the worst economy since the great depression. It was Reagan? He turnd it around. Clinton inherited a very good economy." --mra

mra, I'm shocked that you would actually distort history this way. Or perhaps you seriously just don't know any better, for which I am not shocked but sorry.

Are you so very young you don't remember that Clinton's whole campaign slogan his first time around was "It's the economy, stupid?" After Reagan built up the biggest national deficit in the history of the country, exceeded only now by Bush the younger, Bush the elder inherited it and had to raise taxes to help regain some econonic stability ("Read my lips: No new taxes," and then Bush Sr. raised taxes). But it didn't help, and it took Clinton to get the economy working again and lower the national debt.

As Jim has pointed out before, though, the Republicans are much better liars than the Democrats, and the nation's sheep are much more easily lead by big lies. Just keep saying something often enough, and the stupider people of a society will, in fact, believe it. The very fact that the Republicans have turned the word "liberal" into something akin to being in league with Satan is good example. They're good at such name-calling ("Flip-flopping liberal"), and you can't blame them as they have so little else of substance to argue.

John

mra,

George W. Bush did not pick his people--George H. W. Bush picked George W. Bush's people for him. Alas, that decision has bitten the dad in the ass since the son has turned out to be a religious fundamentalist only a shade or two better than the fanatics who attacked American on 11 Sept.

I was using an example to illustrate my point about people using the term "elitist" abusively towards individuals who don't deserve it. Notice how I did not endorse either Bush or Kerry; instead, I expressed bewilderment that people think it's okay to make irrational personal attacks against Kerry just for being able to speak more than one language.

At any rate, you created this thread with a lot of unsubstantiated angry attacks. What's disturbing is that you're considering not voting for Bush, yet you go on a rampage attacking John Kerry with lies and idiotic assumptions. It's understandable to be sick of politics, but your version of politicking is insidious, pernicious, and exactly the kind of thing that you say that you're against.

Eddie

---

[Post edited by posters5 on Oct 24, 2004]

Ah, but Josh, I didn't claim that Kerry would do a better job than Bush is doing. :)

Besides, Bush's best is simply inadequate, and Bush has been very honest about his policies, allowing everyone to see that they suck. It's time to pull the plug on this guy.

---

[Post edited by posters5 on Oct 24, 2004]

Eddie,

Let me pre-empt this by saying I'm not trying to pick a fight here, just trying to point out a truth.

If you take your last post, and replace "Kerry" where you've entered "Bush", your arguement still stands. Good intentions are good intentions no matter whom they're coming from. Kerry has just as many "good intentions", and "may" screw up just as badly as Bush if given the chance. None of us will know for sure, until he's had his turn in "the big chair".

All we can ask of either candidate is for them to do their best, to be honest with us all, and hope it comes out with a positive end result for our country, and the world.

- Josh

Josh,

Agreed, but part of the problem is precisely that Bush really does think that he's trying to do a good job. However, good intentions that yield bad results are still reprehensible, no matter how well-meaning you were in the first place.

As they say in the anime series "Noir" (reviewed here by me), "Love can kill."

Eddie

"Did ya hear Mr. Kerry asking for a hunting licensee the other day?" --mra

Yes, Mr. Kerry appears to enjoy hunting. So do a lot of other Americans.

"Did ya hear him ADMITTING he was a WAR CRIMINAL and accused his comrades of being war criminals too?" --mra

No, because nobody heard him say these things. During his anti-Vietnam days Kerry repeated to Congress what he had heard from other soldiers.

"Then the viet-cong used his statements to add to the torture of U.S. POW's..." --mra

Yes, just as the Viet Cong used all antiwar sentiments to support their side. It's what all combatants do during war time. It's called propaganda.

"I guess if you hate America and speak French you are considered intelligent." --mra

Now you're being silly, and I'm sure you know that's not what Eddie was saying.

"Kerry and Bush went to the same school and belong (ed?) to the same secret society." --mra

Yes, they both went to Yale and are both members of the Skull and Bones. I appear to have missed your point.

"...the fact that being able to speak more than language is really a plus." But it does not help you as president, especially if you happen to be THE MOST LIBERAL senator in the U.S." --mra

Mr. Kerry's "liberal" rating was based only this last year's voting record, a record that did not include very many votes in the Senate because Mr. Kerry was out campaigning. Overall, for his years in the Senate, Mr. Kerry is ranked about fifteenth or so most liberal. And, incidentally, what's wrong with being liberal? It means that you look at both sides of the issues and make up your own mind about things, as opposed to marching lock step with your "conservative" friends.

"Then they go see Mr. Moore's movie and believe all his lies." --mra

Michael Moore admits his movie is propaganda, not straightforward new reporting, and as such it sometimes distorts the facts to his advantage. There is nothing new about this.

"Did you hear Mrs. Kerry say that Mrs. Bush never had a real job?" --mra

Did you hear Mrs. Kerry immediately issue an apology, having forgotten that Mrs. Bush was once a school teacher?

"Did ya notice that every time she speaks somewhere, the polling numbers immediately go down a few points?" --mra

Do you realize you are now engaging in propaganda of the worst kind yourself by making things up? Or did you read somewhere that this was true, like on a Republican conservative Web site?

"Did ya ever hear Jimmy Carter pronounce nuclear? "nucaler"?" --mra

Yes, Mr. Carter's Southern accent sometimes sounds different to people in other parts of the country. Did you know that Republican President Eisenhower also pronounced "nuclear" as "nucaler"?

"Then he goes down to S. America with the U.N. to certify elections. The exit polls are the total opposite of the results and he says they are just fine. Then he fawns all over Castro. And people say he is the most intelligent, best ex-president ever." --mra

You're either making stuff up again or getting your information from Rush.

"Who won the cold war, Reagan or Carter?" --mra

Actually, neither President "won" the Cold War.

"Who produced a booming, low-inflation economy after inheriting the worst economy since the great depression?" --mra

Clinton.

Sorry to seem so contrary, mra, but you appear agitated about Eddie's remarks and are starting to get carried away with spreading misinformation.

--John

Hi y'all, TGP here. Haven't posted in awhile, but I need to sound off on this:
First of all, I hate it whenever someone spews their unsolicited, biased opinion everywhere. But, that's what I'm doing right now and that's why America is so cool. I'm in High School, and the school is infested with people that have no real political knowledge yet still insist on letting everyone know that they're pro-Bush or pro-Kerry or pro-Nader or whatever. It seems like they are just regurgitating what their parents are saying at home. It's literally TRENDY to spew your political opinion everywhere, because people know that what they say will spark a conversation and people will listen to them and rebute. Like I said, most of us don't have any REAL political knowledge. They don't put everything in newspapers and TV, and many of these publications are biased anyway. My opinion is, it is great to have a political opinion and voting is one of the best things you can do. But I don't want anyone under any circumstance (unless it's an official debate or a valid political conversation) to try to convince me that my political affiliation is wrong. I have no political affiliation since I am 16 and unregistered. So basically, my opinion does not matter at all for another 2 years, and I can't make a dent in the polls. So I try to stay as far away from political conversations as I can. These high school kids like myself don't really know anything, they just repeat what their parents say. I live in a household with a very pro-Bush anti-gun control Dad and a pro-Kerry Mom. Imagine how interesting dinner conversations can be, and how annoying they are to someone like me. But like I said, it's what makes AMerca so sweet is that we have the privlege to discuss and choose our political leaders... after a half-dozen recounts. If Arnold can be a governor, anything can happen.
BTW, I'm watching True Romance as I type this so I'm in a certain mood.

TGP (Don't even get me started on Michael Moore...)

I have to agree with John, mra. It's best to know your history, and when it comes to facts, back them up with resources instead of common banter. I understand that during election time people tend to get a little one-sided for their parties without examining both sides of all issues involved. I'm not saying that Kerry is the answer to all ills of our country, but Bush has had four years and has not done anything to better my well being, or the well being of any of my friends and family.

Here's what I've seen in the last four years under his watch.

1. A pointless war that has produced no weapons of mass destruction.

2. A downsizing of the middle class of America that continues to get worse.

3. Bin Laden is still on the loose.

4. Gas prices at their highest levels ever in our history.

5. Social security a complete disaster since the Republican government has taken from the funds to support the war effort in Iraq.

6. Tax break? What tax break? You mean the one we got three years ago in about a $300 check that is now being recollected through high gas prices?

7. Health care and insurance are still at criminal levels, thanks to nothing being done about dirty lobbyists groups.

8. Loyal allies lost thanks to poor foreign policies and rash decision making by G. W. himself.

9. A sluggish economy that is outpaced by the cost of living going up at astonishing levels, but nobody’s income has increased to compensate for it.

10. Unemployment up at its highest compared to over ten years ago, but as Bush said in the last debate, “go get an education if you’re out of a job”! Yeah, nice answer, and put yourself more in debt when you have to pay that student loan four years later.

11. Personal bankrupts at their highest in the last four years.

12. Science (stem cell research to be specific) has taken a back seat thanks to George’s religious agenda.

13. The FCC playing their own version of Germany from 1939, even though we are granted freedom of expression and speech according to our constitution.

14. Illegal immigration at the highest levels in the last four years, and climbing I might add.

15. Jobs taken from our own country and given to people overseas.



Would you like me to continue?

As I said, I’m not saying Kerry will be the President to beat all, but at this point in the game, anything is better than what we have dealt with in the past four years.

And the press is flying cover for W. Did you see today's AP story about the Kyoto protocol, where Russia has agreed to come onboard? There's just one paragraph mentioning the U.S. and Australia were the only major countries to "reject it." Excuse me, but the U.S. was onboard under Clinton. It was Bush who pulled out of the protocol, saying the cost of cleaning up the environment was too great for U.S. businesses. And here's the official Bush response to the article, which offered no other perspective:

"White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said President Bush 'has a strategy to address the challenges of climate change by harnessing technology and taking advantage of growth and he believes it's important that we address this challenge in a way that does not cost American jobs." What BS. Jobs lost aren't his concern. When Bush led a bailout of Boeing, giving them money to presumably help them avoid laying off people, the company pocketed the money and still laid everyone off. Did Bush rebuke them? Hell no. It's big business as usual.

An AP poll now shows that most Americans think Bush has messed up Iraq, the economy, and domestic issues . . . but that they don't trust Kerry because he's a "flip-flopper." Too bad they don't bother to read anything more than the Republican soundbytes that have labelled Kerry. Which is to say that the Republican PR machine is succeeding in obscuring the truth once more. Can you think of a single person who's parrotted the Republican charges and slogans and also backed it up with full-context examples? All of Kerry's "flips" and "flops" make perfect sense if you consider each individual circumstance, in context. Only this president and his handlers make a virtue out of simplicity and arrogant stubbornness. The sad thing is that while presidents have had speech writers for a long time now, Bush is the first true puppet president this nation has ever had--someone incapable of thinking or talking on his own, or without handlers scripting him--hence the lack of press conferences. Whatever happened to voting for someone capable rather than likable? Gore's 25 years of experience was trumped by Bush's one and a half terms as a governor presiding over a part-time legislature, while Gore, full of facts and figures and specifics, was branded a "policy wonk" as opposed to the "charming" Bush. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Republicans have better PR people able to convince voters black is white and night is day. And you can't win with this group or the media. After the first debate, everyone clamoured for specifics. For the second debate, Kerry responded with more details and directed people to his website, and what do Republicans and comedians focus on? "I have a plan."

What frosts me the most, still, is Bush's baldfaced refusal to testify before the 9/11 Commission after fighting it's establishment and then finally agreeing only if he didn't have to be under oath, if he could have Cheney at his side to jerk his strings, and if the session would remain secret. This is the secret presidency, and that's as dangerous as what he's done to the environment, U.S. foreign relations, and the economy.

There. I've dumped. But for the past four years, and I sincerely hope not for another four, I've felt more like the dumpee than the dumper. All Americans should feel this way, and it puzzles me that half don't seem to get it.

I don't even know what I posted elsewhere that prompted this barrage of unsubstantiated invective from mra. In fact, prior to this thread, I had thought of him as one of the good guys.

At any rate, I didn't say that being able to speak more than one language makes Kerry qualified to be president. All I'm claiming is that speaking more than one language should be viewed as a plus rather than a minus.

I went to an Ivy League university, too. Fully a third of the students were there because of connections. Bush's dad went to Yale, too. Legacies are usually not denied admittance. So what if W. went to Yale? He didn't have to do anything to get in!!!

Also, for the word "liberal" to be used pejoratively the way that Bush and his cronies do is an egregious mis-use of the term. In fact, it's downright idiotic. "Liberal" and "conservative" are simply meant to denote two ends of a political spectrum. If "liberal" is a bad thing to be, then so is "conservative" since they're both extremes if you think about it.

By the way, Reagan was the fool who dumped a $2 trillion national debt on us.

mra,

As you can see from the following article, Bush supporters do not look at the facts but would rather vote on ideology.

- EXTERNAL LINK -

James,

I agree with you as well. I can’t believe the people in this country not seeing the lack of intelligence in George W. However, I believe many people are easy to follow the bias opinion of the news media and stay clear of actually finding their own facts. After all, the media wouldn’t lie to us . . . yeah, right. And let’s not forget all the ridiculous polls and studies taken to sway the undecided voter because thinking for yourself seems to be an epidemic in this country. The constant polls that are taken are what drive me crazy. I have never been asked, nor do I have any friends of family members that have ever been asked to take a poll over presidential candidates. Where the hell do these damn polls come from? Who are these poll people? Personally, I think polls should be ban from the media during election periods so people will get off their lazy ass and get the facts for themselves.

Then there are the insignificant studies that are still in place to sway the lazy undecided voter. And here again I have never been asked or know anyone who has ever been asked to participate in any election study. The one study that kills me is the one where people are more likely to vote for a President that they feel they can sit and have a beer with. That is my last concern of any President, and for that matter, it is of no concern to me at all. I really don’t care about a Presidents “charm”, I care about his level of intelligence and whether I believe he can handle the common issues of our country. As far as I’m concerned, the President is a servant to the people of this country. He’s not a King, a Dictator, or the Pope, he’s an elected official that is here to “serve” our needs and not his own. The President I want in office is the one who will vigorously tackle the issues in our country and I would certainly hope he’s not sitting around having a beer just because he’s charming.

You brought up some very strong environmental issues (which I totally agree with you on) that good-old George has turned his back on. Combine that with the issues I brought up on my pervious post and it is still good enough reason to not put the idiot back in office. Not to mention, this is the sneakiest, most underhanded administration I’ve seen since the Nixon era. It’s amazing how the truth is right in front of people, staunch Republicans to be specific, yet they refuse to see it, all because it’s far more important to have a bottle of Budweiser with the Pres.


Tim (More than happy to vent my frustrations with you James) ;)

Tim,

On the other hand, you can imagine yourself smoking a joint with Clinton, right? :D

Eddie

Eddie,

ROFL :D:D

Tim :D

This is precisely why I don't like political debate. More and more "opinions" are mixed in with fact or "perception", and retched forth as one lumped fact. Then someone adds an emotional comment about one party or the other, and suddenly a "discussion" turns to argueing, then turns to fighting, and if both sides were toe to toe, it would come to blows.

Opinions are fine. Freedom of speech is wonderful, and is one of the greatest ideas/concepts ever devised. But to hide behind that right, in what's now become cliche, and forego responsibility for your words or actions all in the name of "free speech" IS reprehensible in my opinion.

I suppose, I'm just a peacemaker at heart. I don't like living in a nation devided on such a short lived thing as who's in the the Oval Office. 4 more years of either "Bush" or "Kerry" is not going to destroy our country, or bring about a 3rd world war, no matter what extremists on either side would have you believe! Kerry, is a very intelligent person, and could potentially do some great things for this country. Bush on the other hand has made some bad decisions, but I think at heart is a good person trying to do the best he can for our country. President Bush has potential to learn from his past mistakes, and do even better if he wins the election. It's not to say that Kerry wouldn't/won't make mistakes (even big ones) should he be elected. My point is, they're both highly educated, and can both do good for our country. In my opinion, we should not be so angry and devided as a nation over this issue. The world is not going to turn on a dime. And if you subscribe to that theory, I think you may want to read the story of "chicken little". I'm not going to go off on my "positive thinking" optimism speech here, but a little optimism right about now could do our country a lot of good.

- Josh

posters5 (staff)

>>>"Ah--you're not just stubbornly stupid but also a dick! "<<<

Tim Raynor (staff)

>>>"Agreed"<<<

--------------------------------------------

Thanks. I'll take that as a compliment coming from you guys. But at least all your crap was dumped on this topic where it was expected, instead of slung all over the place, randomly, without warning.:x

mra,

Good point. I couldn't remember what your age was, so I "ass-umed" that Tim remembered correctly. Sorry 'bout that.


Eddie,

I'm not sure if that last paragraph was directed at me, but I hope not. I'll admit, you do tend to keep an unbiased approach to burning one president or another on their bad decisions. But if you look back at the posts that you all made directly in response to mra's, I just thought that was a bit overboard. I tend to side with the underdog of any given situation, because I like to see equal ground in an arguement. I don't like to join the bandwagon to beat someone down. If I happen to agree with "the bandwagon", then I'll usually tactfully, and respectfully choose my wording in explaining why I agree with what's being said. I didn't see that happening in response to what mra was saying.

- Josh

Observation:
We have had different combos of Dems - Reps as president and congress.
The only one which slowed the deficit was Rep congress and Dem president.
The Reps decided that opposing all of Clinton's spending was good. But they think all of Bush's spending is OK. Dems in congress is always a disaster. So the only thing a Kerry presidency would be good, is that if congress stays Rep, congress might show up and control spending once again, not from principal, but spite.

Nach,

You are apolgising?...:o
No need to but-
OK, accepted?!:D

I would like to see a law passed that all elections must be won by at least 50%.
There would be two or three colums. You would put your second and third choice in the following colums. MANY people would put in votes for their first-choice, third party candidates without worrying that they would be wasting their votes.

g'night!

Josh: I was using the second-person "you" and wasn't implying that you would be voting for Bush because you specifically are racist (I know that you're not).

mra: Trent Lott said that, had Strom Thurmond been elected president, then we wouldn't have had so many of the problems that we have today. Strom Thurmond ran on a platform that was explicitly racist. All Lott got was a slap on the wrist. He really should've been expelled from Congress.

Around the time of the first Eisenhower election in 1952, I remember my Dad telling me two significant things: (1) The Democrats, he said, were always for the common man, the Republicans always for the rich. And (2) never, ever, argue politics or religion. You'll never win and you'll only make enemies of former friends.

Unfortunately, I have never been as wise as my father.

John

About wining Cold War.

It is a common misconseption, especially among the Americans, that the Cold war was won. It was neither won nor lost because it was never a war. A rapid military build-up over several decades is known as the Cold War. And it was stopped, not won. It was stopped thanks to the efforts of several American Presidents and Soviet President Gorbachev.

mra,

The line "It's the economy, stupid" was an internal campaign slogan. It wasn't meant for public consumption. Clinton and his closest associates knew that the economy was the foremost concern among the public, and the slogan was a way to remind them to stay on topic during the election.

John

John,

Your dad was a very wise man. You remember that old saying... "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree." ;) We all get caught up in the heat of the moment. I said it before, and I'll say it again. You have to love how politics brings out the best in people.


Sasha,

Your comment "It is a common misconseption, especially among the Americans..." is also another "common misconseption". ;)

- Josh

poster5

>>>Today, the Republican Party's unstated platform is to keep poor non-whites poor and forever powerless and to shove Christian extremism down people's throats.<<<

Yikes!
The Republicans want to give people a choice in the schools they attend. "Non-whites" like this idea. The lestists are the ones who hate giving the people a choice. Also, many leftists want to ban homeschooling, some even want to take kids away from parents who do! They don't like private schools either. They want to be in charge of what every child learns. Christians need not apply! Any criticism of public schools are brushed-off as crazy-talk.
The Democrats want to keep the non-whites down. Then blame it on the Republicans. They have been very successful. Then they say voting for them is the only way to go and start the cycle all over again.
I have had several public school teachers who have told me the Bible is wrong and none said it is right. I guess I'm the only one?:o

Nach,
Thanks.:)

Tim,
That wasn't very mature either.
An apology would have been better.
Just admit that you made a mistake about my age and apologise for all the statements you made about me which were wrong, condescending, belittling put downs. I will accept.

________________________________

I remember Pat Buchannon (not that I am defending him) talking about slowing down the rate of illegal immigration and being called a xenophobic(sp )racist by the Dems because of it. Now GWB lets them all in and they don't like that either.

I have also noticed that whenever a Republican takes us to war, the Reps cheer and the Dems scream warmonger. BUT, when a Dem takes us to war, the dems cheer and the reps scream warmonger.
Just a suggestion: whenever a president does something, before passing judgement, think about what your reaction would be if a different president did the same thing. I am sure if Clinton took us to Iraq, *some* people (on both sides of the isle) would have the exact opposite opinion as to weather it was a good idea or not. Seriously.

Mra,

You’re a young man that has a long way to go before you begin to see the bigger picture in politics. When you get to my age and have many responsibilities to worry about, such as a retirement plan, buying a house, raising a kid, paying taxes, paying for health insurance, buying a car, paying car insurance premiums, buying gas, buying food, paying the utility bills, paying credit card debts, paying off student loans, paying the cell phone bill and trying to adjust your income to simply survive in the world, you will then begin to have far more diversity in your political decision making.

To be honest, and I absolutely mean no offense by this, but you’re a young lad that still has many things to learn in life and it makes it very difficult to debate politics with you. As Eddie said, I think of you as one of the good guys around here. I will gladly talk movies and entertainment of any type you’d like. However, when it comes to politics that is a subject that takes an enormous amount of time to learn and nurture as you go through the constant struggles of life. In other words, when you get some experience living in the real world then I’ll be more than happy to debate political issues with you until one of us is blue in the face . . . or we could just type blue text. :D

As it is, you said you were 16 and you’re trying to tell us that Clinton inherited a good economy when he entered the oval office. I think not my friend. I was trying to keep my head above water after the Reagan era and the economy was declining into a recession; trust me, I was living through it. However, I will admit that Clinton shouldn’t take all the glory for the biggest economic boom of the century. Clinton was just fortunate enough to be in office when Bill Gates, and everyone else in the IT industry, elevated our economy and stock market to its highest levels ever. Again, I don't know where you're getting your information from but you really need to get your facts straight and be able to back them up with proof.

Tim.

John,

"It's the economy, stupid?"
Oh what a nice positive message.

The deficits were caused by the democrats breaking their promises on a deals which were made in good faith by Mr. Reagan with lying cheating democrats (who were in collusion with the big three media lying about Mr. Reagan).
When Mr. Clinton arrived the economy had been coming out of a *mild* recession for a year. When Mr. Reagan arrived, there was much higher unemployment, a falling dollar, and double-digit inflation and interest rates. Mr. Reagan also had to deal with the evil empire.
Saying that I am distorting is wrong. I was there.
>>>The very fact that the Republicans have turned the word "liberal" into something akin to being in league with Satan is good example. <<<
If so many people didn't like liberal policies, the Republicans whouldn't keep calling the Democrats "li-be-rals".
>>>They're good at such name-calling... <<<
Oh, please! Does any of this sound familiar........
Dangerous, religious fundamentalist, "in league with" big business, racist, anti-semetic, homophobic, uncaring, stupid, idiotic, ultra-right wing extreemist KKK nazi?

posters5,

>>>...the son has turned out to be a religious fundamentalist only a shade or two better than the fanatics who attacked American on 11 Sept.<<<

WOW! I don't even know where to begin on that one, but you really do need to get out more.

>>>you created this thread with a lot of unsubstantiated angry attacks. What's disturbing is that you're considering not voting for Bush, yet you go on a rampage attacking John Kerry with lies and idiotic assumptions<<<

Just because you are in the dark doesn't mean that what I have said is unsubstantiated. Ther are no lies and idiotic assumptions from me. But thanks for caring.

As for your remarks before...
>>>I expressed bewilderment ...blah blah blah.<<<
You ALSO said some really "interesting" things about Mr. Bush.

Ah--you're not just stubbornly stupid but also a dick!

I'm done with this thread. I suggest that everyone leave, too. We've all had better political discussions elsewhere in the DVD Town Forum.

Eddie,

Agreed. ;)

Tim. :)

Wow. mra may be young, but it seems like you guys are just giving him the once over because he tends to lean the opposite direction than the rest of you obviously lean. I don't mean to start a fire here, but as much as you all have just pounded the crap out of Republicans in the last few posts, how can you point fingers at that party in support of Democrats after what you've just displayed? Thats pretty scary. What I basically just heard from you guys is "See! Democrats are the ones in the right! It's the Republicans that are evil!" Mra made some fine points about Democratic finger pointing, and name calling just as some of you have accused Republicans of doing. Talk about "locking step", or maybe I should say bulldozing.

Tim,

I agree with you that we're SORELY in need of more "parties". But I think you'd be doing an injustice by voting "none of the above". If you did, you might as well not vote at all. Because it would still come down to which candidate had the most votes. Your vote of "none of the above" would wind up being an inconsequential statistic, making no difference what soever. As I said, it would still come down to whom had the most votes. I hope some day we do have more parties, and or more candidates in the future. It's too bad that almost everything in this country comes down to money. Money to support a campaign, or money to buy votes, you name it.


I thought I knew you guys to be objective people. What I just read here really took me back. I consider you guys friends. Maybe not in the let's go hang out at the diner sense, but friends none the less. What's being said here is DEFINITELY not friendly, or respectful (save Tim's last comment).

In any case, I'm sorry if I offended anyone, and I hope this thread takes a turn for the better.

- Josh

Tim,

Your last post was the worst I have seen in a long time.
You are extreeeeemly condescending.
YOU have mad MANY assumptions about me which are FALSE!:@
I have most of the same responsibilities which you mentioned in your first paragraph, and more.
I NEVER SAID I WAS 16. YOUR MISTAKE [again!].
I have plenty of life experience. I remember the 60's. [1960's] - so figure that one out. I have been interested and followed current events since the 70's.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Yes, the economy had been marching forward for a year after a (relatively) mild recession when Clinton started out. And that is the perfect time to start out.
Again, the malaise and big mess Reagan inherited from Carter was the worst it's been since the great depression. That also is a significant cause of the deficits. Go get a chart of the economy since 1945 and compare that with a chart of the deficits. You'll see.
I am sorry you had a bad time financially after the Reagan era. But that obviously doesn't mean it was the same for everyone else. I got my best job at the end of 1987 and business was booming. During the 90's, things leveled off, and the company went overseas and we all got laid off in the summer of 1999. So by your logic, there was a big recession during the mid to late 90's (there was not).
___________________________________________________________________________
Finally, it's bad enough that you keep getting your historical facts wrong.
You condescend to people, and you make up stuff about people.
You made up a straw man version of me and then attacked me.
Everything you said about ME was wrong. And I should know!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So while it is OK to discuss movies with you, you really blew it here.

mra,

whatever! ..!..

Tim. :)

Josh,

mra keeps talking about how "great" Reagan was, but the fact of the matter is that Reagan was responsible for giving America $2 trillion in debt (this is the seed money that has ballooned to more than $4 trillion). In order to "improve" the economy on a superficial level, he did what FDR did--rashly plunge the country into debt, trading long-term stability for short-term lift.

Bear in mind that I talk about presidents regardless of their political affiliations because political platforms often change. Prior to Lyndon Johnson, the Democratic Party was strong in the South because it basically supported racist policies towards blacks. However, after Johnson, the Republicans became strong in the South (which is why Republican presidential nominees have always made appearances at that university in one of the Carolinas that, up until the past four years, banned interracial dating). I denounce both FDR and Reagan for egregious deficit spending; I denounce George W. Bush even though I think that his dad did a very good job (raising taxes was a serious attempt to deal with the damage that Reagan caused).

All of this is very sad because the Republican Party was the party of Lincoln. The Republican Party fought to end racial discrimination. Today, the Republican Party's unstated platform is to keep poor non-whites poor and forever powerless and to shove Christian extremism down people's throats. You wanna vote for Bush? Fine, but call dogma dogma and not "compassionate conservatism".

Eddie

considering what you've said to me already, I won't be crying.:p

mra,

that guy should also be thrown out of congress.

anyway, i'm really through with talking to you any more.

eddie

About that hunting incident with Kerry... I live in Michigan, there is a LOT of hunting. Deer season is probably just as big as Football season is in Texas. I for one agree with the article...

Nothing in relevance to any serious issues, just my gripes with how far these people go to please the voters with these phony personas.
______________________________________________________________

John Kerry Wasn't Hunting - He Was Killing
By Larry S. Moore
CNSNews.com Commentary
October 22, 2004

Of all John Kerry's flip-flops, Thursday's staged hunting trip in Ohio was certainly one of the biggest FLOPS. The effort to portray him as a "guy's guy" showed instead that John Kerry is still an elitist.

Most of us hunters struggle for access to quality hunting grounds. But because of his status as a senator and presidential pretender, Kerry easily found premium land on which to hunt -- in a state where he knows few people, never mind hunters.

John Kerry did no homework for his hunting trip -- no landowner contacts, no scouting trips, no dog training. He probably did not even buy his own camouflage jacket.

He probably could not recite the laws governing his hunt -- which means he did not read his Ohio Hunting Guide or the federal migratory bird rules.

John Kerry is a poster boy for the Humane Society of the United States and PETA - groups that object to hunters just walking out into the fields and shooting things.

What John Kerry did is not hunting -- it was killing.

John Kerry did not develop landowner relations. Where were the photos of Kerry thanking the family for permitting him the opportunity to hunt on their land? Where were the photos of John Kerry asking the farmer if he needs help with any chores or offering to share some of the rewards of the hunt? Then he says he is too lazy to carry his own game!

As a hunter, I have great respect and honor for the reward of the hunt, which is the game I take. That means carrying out my game, and it means properly cleaning and preserving (freezing) the meat for later dining pleasure.

Beyond hunting, there always must be reverence for the game -- otherwise you don't hunt with me. There is always a special place for the dogs (in my case, beagles) as my hunting partners.

John Kerry was out of sight of the photographers when the actual hunting took place. Did he shoot his geese? To me it is unethical for someone else to shoot part of your bag limit. Depending on the circumstances, it could be illegal. Did John Kerry display respect for the land by picking up his empty shotgun shells?

John Kerry is taking every photo opportunity to convince us that he is a regular guys who loves to hunt. But Kerry is missing the mark with true sportsmen and women of Ohio who understand that hunting is about more than waltzing into a state and killing a couple of animals an sacrifice for your political ambitions.

For me, hunting is about family and friends. I hunt with my children. I am a volunteer Ohio Hunter Education instructor. I have worked hard to teach proper respect and ethics to our young people as they take up hunting.

My daughter is featured on the front cover of the Ohio Hunter Education Manual. There is a photograph of me when I was about seven years old with my cousin and his beagle. He taught me about beagles and passed down a family tradition.

We gather around a table of venison, rabbit or pheasant and praise God for the bounties of this land and the opportunities we have to share our hunting experiences as family. That is what true sportsmen understand.

Far from showing he is a regular guy, Kerry is showing Ohioans he just does not understand these things. His trips afield for photo opportunities are as staged and fake as when he threw someone else's war medals away.

John Kerry is not connecting with the true sportsmen.
______________________________________________________________________________

posters5,

>>>"Trent Lott said that, had Strom Thurmond been elected president, then we wouldn't have had so many of the problems that we have today. Strom Thurmond ran on a platform that was explicitly racist. All Lott got was a slap on the wrist. He really should've been expelled from Congress."<<<

The older I get, the more I realise it's not so much what someone says, but who says it. Sen. Byrd (D-WV), a former KKK man, used the "n" word a few times about five years ago. He's still there and, isn't he one of the senate leaders?

Is it possible to lock this thread?

No, but it is possible to delete it from the site. :)

Just because someone in this thread has a problem with other person comments does not mean we should delete this thread. So far it has been cultured and to some extent respectful:)

As much as I hate political debate, I'd have to agree with rpruthee. I may not like it, but obviously others do. I think things have stayed respectful (for the most part) and for those of us that don't like the thread, we can "choose" to overlook it, or not read it at all.

It's good to have a choice. ;)

- Josh

Tim,

Very good points. However, I have different opinion about your point --
15. Jobs taken from our own country and given to people overseas.

The Clinton Administration recognized that India and China will be biggest land for exports. By the middle of 90s and late 90s, software exports to India and manufacturing exports to China rose. It was Clinton admin which rose the workers visas quota from 65,000/year to 135,000/year for 3 years. Y2K projects rose and US became the largest global exports for software. Manufacturing exports from the US to China and Taiwan was common in 90s. What was positive - the economy under Clinton was booming, so no one complained. The US did not have any deficient. Until late 1999 when the technology boom ended, the whole economy turmoil started. Everything on the technology front back fired. The companies started loosing money. So to compensate for the losing and to reduce future financial imbalance, they exports to other countries rose. Now the real problem started - people in the US started loosing their jobs as companies started looking for the ways to reduce losses.

The main problem is - the economy never really picked in the last 4 years. When companies are not doing well, economy suffers. Bush cannot change - he has been often blatant and foolish about saying -go and educate yourself. Damn it is not about education, it is all about making more money for the companies. Will Kerry change it? I don't think so. We all live in tumultuous times !

--Ranjan