John's Episode III review

All too true, at least in my opinion. You've nailed the hits and misses of the film the way I saw it.

Despite this being the "last" Star Wars movie and I didn't enjoy it all the much, it's good to know I won't be spending another 7 bucks on new Star Wars film anytime soon. Closure.

John,

While "Episode III" is a "dark" movie, I didn't feel that it was less cutesy than the other movies (I-II, IV-VI). There were a lot of crowd-pleasing moments courtesy of R2-D2, the stupid buzz droids during the opening space battle, the Trade Federation's droid soldiers, and the Republic's clone soldiers telling each other lame jokes. Also, C3-PO was as annoying as ever.

Eddie

Lucas does like to play to the crowd.

John

I think it's okay sometimes to be "cutesy", if done right. Unfortunately, all the stuff that Eddie mentioned isn't really fun. C3PO for example (hate him or not) had much better things to say than "I feel so useless" in episodes IV-VI. And damn...did you see him fly that starship LOL! Most of these cutesy moments lack the energy and fun in films, like, say, Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Tim,

Good point about Lucas not wanting to detract from the "final dual". I had thought about that after watching the film, and it seems the most logical answer.

Depression,

Unfortunately, a lot of the details of the film have escaped me at this point. I don't remember much about the final dual, save the hopping around on lava skiffs, Hayden's "I hate you", and Ewan's "You were the chosen one" lines. I don't remember being distracted by anything in the fights though. Maybe I'm a little more forgiving of the fight scenes. Sure the "Maul vs. Obi-wan" fight looked choriographed, but I still really liked it. I didn't think it looked that bad. I was actually really impressed with the speed at which Ewan performed against such a renowned martial artist and fight choriographer as "Gregg Berger".

Ugh... I may just have to relent, and see Episode III one more time before DVD release. :(


- Josh

"I found the saber fights exciting enough and probably the most entertaining parts of the movie. To me, the worst saber fight ever is in “A New Hope” between Vader and Obi Wan. For the love of Pete, you could fall asleep watching that one. "

Thats funny because it's true. Bunch of old guys giving little pokes and swings. I think it'll have more value after seeing the two of them going at it in their prime though.

I thought the choreography in that final fight was ridiculous. It was like Maul vs Obi to the 10th power.

Reason I see no issue with the Windoo death is because we have never been drawn close to the character in the first place. Sure, he might be the big bad ass Jedi, but he's not a main character to the story. If you really think about it, he always had minimal screen time in each episode. He has his place in the trilogy but I have never weighed his importance to the tale.

Was his fight to quick? Perhaps, and who's to say a saber fight between a Sith and a Jedi should be long and drug out. Another reason for the short fight could simply be not to distract attention from the bigger saber fights at the end of the film (you know, save the best for last). I think this may be the reason more than anything, therefore I had no issue with Windoos death.

Depression,

I was just being overly dramatic to illustrate my point when I mentioned the "5 minutes" with Palpatine. ;) As for the Windoo scene... scratch that... as for "most" of the problems in the movie, I think you've caught on to something there. It all was just too rushed. There wasn't enough time to build the suspense, and have the ups and downs that a good drama requires.

I TOTALLY think the Emporer was sandbagging it for Aniken's sake. He HAD to know Aniken was on his way. Remeber in Empire and Jedi, the Emporer's always talking about "things are going exactly as I have forseen them". On top of which, he was being all crafty in the beginning of the show when Aniken and Obi-wan were fighting Dookoo, and every time either one of them scored a good hit on Dookoo, he did that little "yes!" move, like he was rooting for them.

As for the "tacked on scenes" issue... I'm sure that's the case. Lucas is fully aware how many of us would hunt him down if he didn't tie up most of the loose ends! ;)

Though there was a lot wrong with it, there were quite a few things I loved about the movie.

I'm trying not to do with this release as I did with the last 2. When "Phantom Menace" came out, I think I saw it 11 or so times in the theater. When "Attack Of The Clones" came out, I think I saw it 3 or 4 times in the theater. Both times I saw them multiple times in the theater, it ruined it for me when it ceme out on DVD. I couldn't touch the disc for at least 4 or 5 months after it came to DVD. So, I may wait until "Revenge Of The Sith" hits DVD before I see it again.




- Josh

Was it even 5 minutes? I don't recall much persuasion at all. But yeah, I was being a little brash. I understand the reasoning behind it all, I guess I'm just more so displeased as to how it was handled.

I would have much more enjoyed Anakin stopping his saber by blocking his swing with his saber and maybe commencing a battle between the two of them. An arm cut and then a cheap shot by the Emperor just felt sloppy.

But the bigger question about that scene would be, do you think the Emperor was sand bagging to make it look like the Jedi were trying to overrule the Chancellor when Anakin walked in? I can lean either way but I could probably think of other ways of turning Ani besides frying my own body.

This also leads to another problem I had with the movie. A lot of the scenes felt tacked on just to make the trilogies go full circle. Sids was most likely cunning enough to think of other schemes, but there had to be an answer for his change in features right?

I probably sound like I hate the movie as I've only been criticizing the things I disliked, but I went to the Wed midnight showing and saw the Sunday matinee as well ;)

Now that the film has had time to sink in, I'll admit that yes, there was a lot wrong with it. However, I stand by my initial opinion that I liked it. I agree the whole film was too rushed. I thought the droid "one liners", and R2's antics in the beginning were entertaining, and funny. I agree with Tim however, in that had they continued they would have easily killed the film. Remember all of C3P0's one liners one after the other in AOTC? Ugh... now that was bad!

I do have a problem with Mace Windoo's death. The guy is supposed to be the baddest of the bad when it comes to Saber battles! It was weak.

Leia's birth scene was so fast, my head was spinning. Portman named the babies so quickly, it's like she was trying to say the names before she forgot them.

Hayden's "I HATE YOU!!" line wasn't necessarily a bad line perse, but he acted it very poorly.

The space scene directly following the prologue was a bit chaotic in it's pacing, and camera motion. Even if chaotic is what Lucas was going for, you still have to abide by certain camera, and motion rules... even if the cameras and motion are CG.

I would have liked to have seen a little more time spent with the "Wookies". With as little screen time that the Wookies got, they could have just as easily been an "honorable mention".

I think I have to disagree with Depression on Anikens flip flopping. Though this was also rushed in the movie, and needed to be built up more, I think what was being portrayed, was Aniken's "struggle within". And in actuality Depression, Aniken DID have a problem with killing Dookoo in the beginning. He all but had a 5 minute conversation with Palpatine about how he shouldn't do it, and how it didn't feel right to kill him.

To my understanding "General Grievous" was supposed to be one bad mother of a cyborg! He was supposed to be this evil cyborg recently trained in the Jedi and Sith ways, and could out manouver Jedi because of his robotic reflexes, and ability to move in strange ways because of them. We saw a little bit of that in the fight with Obi-wan, when Grievous was doing the double lightsaber spin attack. This was another disappointing fight to me. I would like to have seen Obi-wan use a little more improvision with force powers, and adaptation.

I didn't have that much of a problem with the Anakin/Obi-wan fight. It was fairly well done, and exciting enough. I thought Ewan McGregor's lines were excellently delivered.

Yoda I thought looed better CG wise, than he has in the first two Episodes. Much better expression, and believability.

I really liked the scene leading up to Obi-wans fight with Grievous, when he was riding that lizzard bird thing. Quite well done.


There are still a few loop holes however: Why did Anikin revert to his younger self at the end of Jedi? Why is Obi-wan and Yoda their older selves when converted into the force?


That's all I can think of at the moment.





- Josh

The thing about Mace is that he's supposedly one of the best Saber users out there. It was just disappointing to see him go out with a whimper. His battle wasn't even that spectacular.

The worst part of it ass is how much of a hypocrite Ani was during his death scene. In the beginning he had no problem killing Dooku, yet he cuts off Mace's arm because he was going to do the same thing as him? Lame.

I thought John's point about the appalling clutter of Lucas' frame was dead on. Has George never heard of a little concept called "negative space"? For crying out loud, George, go to an art gallery just once in your life, will you? It's like the man can't sleep if he knows there's even a single centimeter of the screen that isn't filled with some randomly kinetic object.

I could cope with the weak plot and rotten dialogue if the spectacle being offered was worthwhile, but I don't find it appealing at all. These movies are bony-ass ugly. Peter Jackson advanced the cause of CGI a full generation; Lucas has done everything in his power to drag it all right back into the muck.

Tim,

You're seeing things again. 8)

Eddie

I saw it today and I really need to let it all sink in for a few days before I can arrive at a concrete decision whether I thought it was better than the other previous two. Again, it was visually beautiful to look at but still full of the same wooden dialog and bland characterization. At this point, I don’t feel it was any better than AOFC, and in some degree, less climactic than Episode II. Why? Simply because there really is no surprise to the story as we, as an audience, know what’s going to happen. There are simply no twists or turns and no apparent reason to worry about pointing out “spoilers” because we all knew what was going to happen. Unfortunately, we’ve all known the outcome of the tale for years, so it really does not make for an effective film. If anything, all we are getting is to see the visual end of the saga, thus leaving a bland “oh well” feeling walking out of the theatre.

Pet Peeves:

I felt Aniken’s decent to the dark side was weak and far too shallow. At one point he’s all about following his path as a Jedi (Honor. Jedi golden rules, etc.), and like flipping on a light switch, he gives his sole to Darth Sidious. It all seemed too quick which, in my opinion, made it hard to swallow. It just wasn’t believable enough to me. Plus the whole cry-baby thing made it even worse.

Padmea’s child birth and death was also weak and rushed, as well. I really didn’t care for the “no explanation” as to why she was dying, and for God’s sake don’t tell me it was because of a broken heart. The whole love connection between her and Aniken was cheesy enough to be considered the hall of fame of bloopers.

Yes, the childish humor of the droid armies was silly, but at least it didn’t last through the entire film. Again, Lucas always has to make that stretch to make sure the little kiddies are entertained, even though the mood of this episode leans more towards the adults in this film than the previous two. R2D2’s antics were humorous enough and easier to swallow because we’ve seen the droids funny side in all the other films. However, the cheesy one-liners by the droid army units could have easily killed this movie had they been there the entire two-hour span.

I didn’t care for how Lucas left yet another plot hole as Yoda explains to Obi Wan how he could communicate with Quigon. Yoda tells Obi Wan he will teach him how to do so but we all know they go their separate ways into exile. I really didn’t get the point into leaving the whole idea to assumption. Whatever George!

Count and Counterpoint:

Many of the reviews I have read make several comparisons to the light saber fights and how many of them were weak compared to previous episodes. I don’t get the complaints on this issue? I found the saber fights exciting enough and probably the most entertaining parts of the movie. To me, the worst saber fight ever is in “A New Hope” between Vader and Obi Wan. For the love of Pete, you could fall asleep watching that one.

Some people seem to have a problem with Mace Windou’s death, I didn’t. I thought it worked just fine and I really didn’t see any major issues there to complain about. There are also those who find Yoda’s skills with the saber over-the-top. I really don’t! What do people expect? The little guy is two feet tall, how else is he supposed to fight with a saber?

Speaking of sabers, did anyone notice how the light sabers in this film had a pointed tip like you would see on a real sword?


Tim:)

As much as the Windu death scene sucked, did anyone notice how it foreshadowed the death of the Emperor in Episode 6? Anakin was looking back and forth as to which side to turn to for about the same time in each film before he makes his choice. Luckily in the 6th one he makes the right choice.
I liked how many homages and foreshadows there were in this movie. Maybe that simply means recycled scenes/ideas, but I liked them.

Also, I don't think knowing how thing would turn out eliminates the tension of the scene at all. You watch a film like Kill Bill and you know that when the Bride/Beatrix/A.K.A.Mom engages with one of the baddies that they will die. You know she's gonna get to kill Bill, so of course she's gonna win every fight. But regardless I was still on the edge of my seat for every one of those fight scenes. Likewise with good horror films like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre or Scream. You know that when the killer stalks the person they are going to die, but you are still frightened and held in suspense till there death. It's preparing for it to happen that builds tension. With each strike of the sword you wonder if that was the blow. The fights in Star Wars Episode 3 still held some resonance for me, simply because I was dreading the moment when the characters died. Probably not everyone feels this way, but I certainly did.

When I say ridiculous, I mean that in a good way =D.

I Liked the lightsaber battles in episode 3, but, in my opinion the best saber fight (which was the one that got us wishing for more) was the battle of qui-con and obi wan with darth maul. The direction was great, the musical cue was fantastic, the choreography was fantastic, the scenery outsanding, and the outcome satisfying. (even though i would like to see maul escape and return in episode 3 with scars and stuff, saving the emperor and killing windu himself and have anakin watching...then let him release his anger and fight darth maul in the same scene and the emperor will say stuff like "release your anger..." like he says to luke in jedi... and then he kills darth maul and becomes darth himself in the place of maul.
So many stuff he could do to make it better plot wise... the guy cant write! He even told it, he was forced to write it. 2 pages per day...imagine that...i bet the script was complete since the first draft. If it wasnt for the visuals..and lucas had to film the whole thing like the old days this would be a flop. As for the acting that we all complaint about, there was never a star wars with good dialog or acting. To be a skywalker you have to be wooden as a tree on naboo and be prepeared to finish your carrier after your star wars movies wrap shooting (mark hammil). The only guy that actually did something was harisson ford.If the original star wars movies were released now days...everybody was going to make fun of it, back then though, it introduced special fx in a way that we never seen before and converted hollywood to an even bigger market based on demand. Thats star wars. People talk about "the cinema of george lucas". Aside technicalities...the guy cant direct. What he was allways good at was to find technology and the money to use it. A Buisiness man rather than an artist.

Come on nothing! Did we forget it's a Lucas world? It's pretty much like a cartoon, anything can happen. True, Mace was never mentioned in episodes 4, 5, and 6, but neither was Quigon. All I'm saying is nobody actually saw Mace DEAD. You just saw him fall to an assumed death. Let's not forget Lucas has made his fans aware that it was always intended to have an episode 7,8, & 9; yet he claims he won't be doing them, probably ever. With enough pressure from 20th Century Fox, I'm sure he'll be persuaded to make the final episodes or sell it off for someone else to make. Well, I'm sure you've all heard the rumors. As I said, it's a Lucas world and anything can happen.

Just wanted to reply to a couple of the last posts, which I had fun reading....

Onijay-
I noticed a bunch of homages in Ep III including the ones you mention. Anakin's battle with Count Dooku in the beginning was much like Luke/Vader in Ep VI. The Emperor/Chancellor on the throne watching, Anakin's overhead strike just as Luke did, although with different results (Vader lost a limb there), and Palp telling Anakin to kill Dooku the same way he told Luke to kill Vader. Obviously they both made different decisions, but I digress.

Yoda also tells Luke in Ep VI, "Don't underestimate the power of the Emperor" right before he dies. Indeed his battle with Palp in Ep III was proof that the Emperor is powerful.

Of course I can't think of anything else now, but, ya know.....knowing the Jedi will die isn't enough to spoil the on-screen result for me. It's all about the visualization and how the scene plays out. Ki-Adi Mundi's death was cool, he seemed shocked when he turned around and was fired upon by his clones, as was the other Jedi that was gunned down. Knowing Mace was going to die was nothing compared to how he actually did die. I had no idea Anakin would come in and be faced with this decision, and then send Mace sailing to his demise. He said he wanted to go out in a blaze of glory!

Which brings me to Tim-
Although you may have been being sarcastic when you said Mace could have survived his 30 some odd story drop, like Anakin and Obi-Wan were capable of doing, Anakin and Obi-Wan weren't shocked to death with Sith lightning prior to their jumps, I mean, come on!!! 8)

-Dave

Ah yes my young Padawan, but, as we all know there IS no Episode 3.5, and as we never see Windoo in Episodes IV - VI, he is dead for all intensive purposes. Though, the cartoons that were produced recently, were sort of an Episode 2.5. ;) :D



- Josh 8)

Ya know, come to think of it, we really don't know if Windoo is truly dead. After all, we only saw him fly out the window assuming he was falling to his death. Did we not see Aniken leap about 30 stories to catch the bad guys space ship in Episode II? Even Obi-Wan has had a few falls that should have warnted a few broken bones, but ah, he's an all powerful Jedi. And so what if Windoo got his hand chopped off; everyone knows in the Star Wars world they just fix it right up with a bionic hand.

Well, just a thought as I open up a whole new can of worms. ;)

Tim :D

Ahhhh.... it's a nice dream isn't it Tim? I'd like to see episodes 7, 8, & 9 come to the screen. And, you're right. Lucas very well could go back on his word, and we could see Windoo come back and help train Luke and Leia as they become Jedi. All I was saying is that from everything I had heard, Lucas didn't want to make the last 3, because he had too many other projects that he wanted to do. I mean, look at how long just 1, 2, & 3 took! I can't remember when Lucas started writing the script for Episode I, but look at the release dates from Episode I to Episode III! May of 1999 to May of 2006!! Taking into account writing, filming, and editing time for Episode I, that's darn near a decade man!!

Another thing that comes to mind, is in George's interviews after Episode III's release, he's mentioned that he's glad to see it finished before he died. George said "...when you're working on a project that takes this long, you half expect the world to end before you can finish it." Though, it would be cool (as you said) to see Lucas hand it off to another director to see them finished. If that ever did happen, I think "Irvin Kershner" should direct them. He did so well with "Empire"... why not? Oh well. If it happens, that's cool. If not, at least we won't have to wait almost a decade to find out how it ends. ;)


PS

Do you think they could get "Carrie" into that bikini again? :D

- Josh :)

"in George's interviews after Episode III's release, he's mentioned that he's glad to see it finished before he died." --Josh

Lucas was born in 1944, the same year I was born. And I ain't about to die off anytime soon. Clint Eastwood is still winning Academy Awards, and he's about fifteen years older than Lucas. I can understand Lucas wanting to do a lot of other kinds of films in the next decade or two, but using his age as an excuse for not doing any more "Star Wars" is, well, just an excuse.

John

So, you're saying the josh is on me? ;)



- Josh :D

I'm just joshing with ya, Josh.

JJP

John,

I may have conveyed that incorrectly. From the "spirit" of what Lucas was saying in that comment, it sounded like he half expected something to get in his way of completing Star Wars. Whether that be death, a comet hitting the planet, or what have you.

Sorry about that. ;)


And as long as you're tooling around in your 'Z', I don't think anyone can call you old! :D Unless ofcourse you're driving 10mph under on the freeway. ;)


- Josh

Did anyone notice te HUGE revelation in Ep. III?
As Palpatine told ANakin the story of the Sith lord that could create life, somethig big was revealed. Palps learned this power. He could alter midichloriens to create life. Anakin was born without a father... PALPS CREATED ANAKIN!!!!!!!!
Does anyone else agree with me or am I just weird? Also see my above post! Buh-bye!

Now with Ep. III out, it is time to bring up all the old questions we all want to know. First of all, I LOVED Ep. III and seriously consider it to be one of the best of the SW films. Contrary to posters, I believed that this film raised the whole series and allowed me to watch all of them in a newer, better light. The following questions are all doozies that perhaps no one knows. If anyone has heard info on them, please share it:

1. Will Ep. 7,8,9 be made? If so, what will they be about? (I personally hope that they aren't made.)

2. Will there be a 6 film box set with new deleted scenes/features or a simple repackaging?

3. Did anyine else notice weird errors in the OT DVD's that may possibly be fixed in the future (matte boxes, green saber in ANH, pink-looking red sabers, etc.)? Or are these not errors and my eyes are just messed up?

4. Will the prequels be re-released as SE's also? I heard that there may be a TPM re-release with a CGI Yoda...

That's about it. Once again, Ep. III was SWEET and I highly reccomend it. Peace!

Ok, to bring this back into "movie" context...

Why do I suddenly feel like I'm "Being John Malcovich"? Or maybe I should say "Josh Malcovich". Malcovich? Malcovich MalcovichMalcovich Malcovich? :D

This thread is really joshed up.

Ok Ok, I'm done... ah I lied, one more:

"They blew it up! Josh them... josh them all to hell!"
Doesn't quite have the same impact...;)

I'm done now.

HEY! Don't take my name in vain! :D

Just what the josh is going on?

TGP,

Your not too far off. I work with a Star Wars nerd that knows everything about the whole Star Wars universe. If you're trying to say that perhaps Darth Sidios could be Aniken's father, then yes, this is a big revelation amongst the Star Wars nerd crowd out there. It's starting to become the big-buzz around the fan clubs but much of what is suggested is still hearsay at this point. Even what I mentioned about Mace is becoming a big-buzz around the Star Wars fan camps because, as I mentioned, you really have no proof that the guy is dead; you just saw him fly out the window.

One of your questions about the matting in the old movies I can answer. Yes, they do have the technology and software that could easily get rid of the matting issues that suffer in the effects of the old films. I've seen it done on other films and I know exactly the sofware they use to clean up the problem. Why they didn't do it on the release from last fall, I have no clue? Quite possibly, and as double dipping goes, they will most likely release a remastered edition of the films in the near future that will remedy some of the issues you brought up.

Tim

Anyone notice just about everyone has their own way of spelling Anakin? 8)

I know what you're saying:
"The guy drops off the face of the earth for a few months and then slogs this old thread out again?"

Yup!

John, I have to agree with you. While this may be the best of the prequels, that ain't sayin' much.

These 3 movies could have strung together an immensely interesting and engaging story; however, Lucas chose to tell an uninteresting and emotionally void amalgam of mythical motifs. In other words: he ripped off everyone from the Greeks to Shakespeare, and still couldn't say anything worthwhile.

I often want to compare these to the Matrix films, but hey, at least they got the first one right. Lucas crafted three films of busy CGI visuals, clunky (at best) dialogue, uninteresting characters, and patchwork plotlines.

Case in point: Anakin Skywalker is to become the most feared man in the galaxy, yet here is his character arc:
Ep1: Annoying child.
Ep2: Whiney teen.
Ep3: Duped simp.

Why should we be lead to believe that this man becomes the galaxy's baddest heavy around? Lucas gives us nothing in his background to show even the slightest inkling that this fella has a chance of becoming one of the most revered bad guys in cinema history. In order to make a tragic hero (after all, what's the point of making these films unless we are showing a character that we so desperately want to be good, but ultimately we know he will be bad) we have to care for the character and be wary of his hamartia (tragic flaw). From what I can tell, this guy's hamartia is that he's annoying. If all annoying people turned to the Dark Side, we would live in a world of Darth Vaders. Anakin's turn to the Dark Side is sketchy to say the least. Odysseus was too proud for his own good; Achilles overlooked his flaws, flaunting his strengths. Characters that you want to see prevail, all the while knowing they will fail.

Then again, maybe I am annoying enough to be labeled "Darth Sean."

In interviews, Lucas often takes things back to Greek Mythology and Saturday Matinee serials, yet nothing he puts on the page or screen comes close to incorporating the elements of these two worthwhile genres.

In the end, you have crowded visuals, great sound, and nothing to write home about. In fact, I probably shouldn't even be writing this.

As far as this prequel trilogy goes, I think Shakespeare, one of Lucas' inspirations if you ask him, said it best in Macbeth: "...it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Now this idiot will give it a rest.

Sean (after that long diatribe, it might be time for me to go to the rest home...)

I know I may get shot for this, but I like the prequels. No, they're not as good as the originals and they certainly have their problems but they are much better than most of the recent sci-fi.
Ep. I was too political with slow spots and some definite bad acting from Jake Lloyd and some of the small characters. SOme of the new characters were not too interesting, Jar-Jar was annoying and there were elements of the film too geared to children. But, the CGI was great, the fight scenes were awesome, the acting from Neeson/McGregor was sweet, and the musical score was great. Altogether I view this as the worst of the prequels but I think it needs to be slow and political to lay the groundwork for the Empire, the Jedi and all of the aspects of the series.
Ep. II was actually pretty good in my mind's eye. Yes, Christensen's acting was subpar but his character needed to be an emo-whiner. It shows how his emotions got the best of him, which would lead to his downfall and his awkward relationship with Padme was doomed to end. After all, where else could Luke get his whininess from? I loved the almost film noir/detective angle taken with the pursuance of Jango Fett and once again the music and FX are great. Natalie Portman and Hayden's interactions could've had more emotional resonance obviously but I think their forbidden relationship needed to be awkward; Anakin could not control or hinder his emotions.
I loved Ep. III. A lot. I found that the story was wonderful, the action was better than ever and the acting had improved greatly. I finally cared about the new characters. Hayden Christensen did much better (with the exception of one or two scenes) but Natalie Portman was terrible in this one. Her acting is usually very good, but not here or in the other SW films. The dialogue scenes, paricularly between Christensen and McDiarmid were GREAT (McDiarmid was a badass in this by the way) and this brought the series full circle. I think perhaps the Jedi were killed off a little too quickly, but that scene was well planned and I liked it anyway. Lucas did not wuss out like he did with Ep. I and he made Ep. III PG-13 and showed the darkness that was needed at this point in the series.
I think the problem is that SW has such a huge fanbase and that many people had preconceived notions about how things were supposed to turn out. So Vader started out as a whiner and was tricked into the darkside... so what? How else would he have had the power to convert back to good in ROTJ? So the acting isn't always great... Take a look at the old films and you will see that there are moments of bad acting there as well (such as Hamill in most of ANH). I think that people diss the prequels because they hold the originals in a much higher regard than I do. I love the originals and consider them to be some of th best sci-fi but I do not worship the ground that they stand on. Anyway, that's my rant. I'd rate SW as follows:

Ep. I: 6
Ep. II: 7
Ep. III: 8
Ep. IV: 9
Ep. V: 10
Ep. VI: 8

TGP,
My main criticism of the prequels is not that they are not as good as the originals. My main criticism deals with the fact that the storyline is uninteresting. Aside from visuals and sound, there's not much substance. I think this falls squarely on the shoulders of Lucas himself.

Do preconceived notions play into it? Surely they do. However, even taken on their own merit, the prequels lack an interesting storyline. Lucas had the opportunity to show a great tragic hero of American cinema, and yet he chose write about trade negotiations. Politics would have better served as the background, with the characters taking center stage. Unfortunately, Lucas has the characters taking a back seat to the politics involved.

Were the characters in Eps 4-6 fully developed? Not as much as many would have liked, but there were at least some arcs going on. Luke goes from naive farmboy to Jedi Master; Han goes from scoundrel to hero; Leia goes from sheltered princess to freedom fighter. These are arcs that invest one in the story.

The difference? The original trilogy included other writers and directors. The prequels were a one-man show.

In the prequels, character changes only occur in the most arbitrary ways. Obi Wan is called a Jedi Master, we don't see it. Anakin says he's powerful, we don't see it. Palpatine becomes the Emperor, we don't see why. Most everything in the prequels is stated expositorily, nothing is shown. For example: In Sith, Obi Wan states that Anakin and Palpatine are "good friends." However, nothing has been shown to give us this impression. We're just supposed to pick it up from dialogue. Sure, the guy saved Palpatine, but that constitutes a good deed, not a good friendship.

A basic rule of writing is "show it, don't say it." Lucas hung this baby out the window feeling that all an audience needs is to be told plot points, not actually shown them.

However, the best line in the entire trilogy does occur in this film, and I'll bet this one can be attributed to Tom Stoppard who script doctored this puppy. It's Amidala's line where she says, "So this is how Democracy dies. To the thunderous sound of applause." Great line.

Way to go, Tom! Wish you coulda written the whole movie!

Sean (so this is how an Epic dies. to the sound of thunderous retching...) :o