"We need Big Blue more than ever!"

IBM?

Since when are truth, justice and the American way outdated ideals? Just because our current government has complete contempt for all standards of decency and morality doesn't mean the rest of us have to give up on it. We need Big Blue more than ever!

Superman is the ultimate immigrant of a new world if you consider that world to be Fantasy Land. To me, this is the main problem with this upcoming film or the ones from years ago, they simply don’t fit the world of today. I’m just not going to buy into some clichéd character that’s all about good old fashioned morals with super strength when it just doesn’t fit into the current culture. The idea of Superman worked fine in an era when Americans were at the subatomic level of the Leave it to Beaver decade. It simply has no realistic value in the new millennium and presents itself as the corniest piece of American culture since the Love Boat.

Tim (crossing my fingers in hopes that this movie will bomb big time) :D

TGP, the same sentiments you share about Batman, I share for Superman. But come on, you're also forgetting some of the great work done on the Smallville series over the last five years combined with Superman I and II which should at least equal the wealth of entertainment to be had by the Bat franchise. They've had an equal number of movies and the latter two for both sucked. There is little doubt in my mind that Superman Returns will be a great film.

While "Superman" wasnt the first word I ever spoke, the ideologies that he upholds and stands for are what I relate to the most. Some might argue that those ideologies are a relic from when he was first created by Shuster and Siegel, so many years ago. And while that might be true for the old Supes, his character is evolving and changing within that ideological framework to better fit with a modern audience. He may not be human in the way Batman is, but he's more human in the way that he holds strong to his hope that the human race can better itself. Can you really go wrong with looking for the best in people? He's the ultimate immigrant in a new land (world).

Batman was redefined by Frank Miller nearly 20 years ago. Byrne did a similar thing with Supes though it didn't have quite the impact as Miller's run (Year One, TDKR). Most recently, books like Ross' "Kingdom Come" and Steven Seagle's "It's a Bird" have done for my love of Superman what Miller's work did for many for the Dark Knight.

Superman and Superman II are great, while Batman, Batman Returns and Batman Begins are great so that's 2-3. Superman Returns looks cool and I will definetly see it (Kevin Spacey as Lex Luthor... I'm so there). But I have a very nostalgic connection to Batman. Batman was my first word for God's sake and I have the Batman and Batman Returns original movie posters behind my bedroom door. I'll always have more respect for Batman because he's more human, more vulnerable and much more intelligent than Superman (Superman does not have super intelligence guys, sorry). However, I will always love those first two Superman movies and Chris Reeve was a BADASS. I look forward to the new Superman flick.

They've dropped the "American Way" if you read any of the latest Supes stuff, you'll see that, especially after they elect Lex as President in the books, which occured around the same time Bush took office... hmm.

And Chris, it's Booster Gold, not Blue Beetle.

Dang I love this site! Where else can you have a discussion like this (with intelligent people, mind you) and get away with it?! This thread feels like it could be a discussion going on in someone's den. You know... bean bag chairs, pool table. ;)

Tim, you're a riot!


Chris,

What about "Ursa" in 2? She's not the hottest babe that ever lived, but there's just something about her. ;)

By the way, Superman came out when I was 4, and for the longest time, I missunderstood "General Zod's" line as: "YOU WILL BOW DOWN BEFORE ME JOR-EL! BOTH YOU, AND SOME DAY... YOUR A$$!!" Shortly after repeating that to my parents and having my mouth washed out with soap, I learned he said "heirs". Was it just me? :D


- Josh

Oh, Tim, just when I thought we were starting to agree on so many things...

Superman and Superman 2 are still the head of the class as far as superhero movies go. Spidey 2 and X-Men 2 are worthy as well, but nothing compares to the original Superman movies. Chris Reeve could do wonders with a mere change of posture. The first film has some problems - I don't really like Gene Hackman's take on Lex Luthor, but the movie is still great in large part because Margot Kidder (not the world's greatest actress overall, but very good here) was the first person to ever make Lois Lane a real character.

Superman 2 has General Zod, and that makes it the best superhero movie ever.

Superman 3 - well, it has "drunk Superman" and that's worth something.

Superman 4 never happened, and damn any of you who claim otherwise.

Hello, can we come back down to Earth? My comparison has nothing to do with Superman Vs. Batman in the sense of comics. Personally, I could care less who’s got what power, brains, brawn or whatever; I’m talking about the fine art of filmmaking. I can’t stand the old Superman movies because they reek of wooden acting, corny dialog, and just plain too silly to digest. Not to mention, the special effects are a freaking riot to watch today. In my opinion, Superman I and II are two of the worst superhero films ever made and I’m certainly not looking forward to the next director in line to feed us the next cheese-ball fest from Wisconsin.

Truth, Justice and the American Way! Please, give me a freaking break! For the love of Pete, is it possible the Bush administration produced this new Superman?

Tim (literally rolling on the floor laughing my freaking ass off):D:D:D:D

Erik & Chris,

I'm glad to see there are still a few diehard Superman fans out there. Mostly I'm a fan of the movies. I never did get into the comics that much. If a friend had the latest copy, I'd read it, but it was when Chris Reeve dawned the blue & red suit that I was sold. The guy just personified everything that was good about Superman to me. I guess in a lot of ways comics were lost on me because I was spoiled with color TV, movies, and cartoons as a kid. It wasn't until I was in my late teens that I discovered the amazing artwork by the likes of Stan Lee, Chris Clairmont, and Frank Miller.

Oh, and Chris... If you're too old to have "if Superman fought..." discussions, you're just that... TOO OLD! I don't think any of us wants to get that old. :D


TGP,

I think I'd have to agree with Chris on this one. The artists that came up with those comics where Superman is being beaten down by Batman, were obviously written by "Bat" fans. Ability to ability, there's just no contest. Like I said, don't get me wrong, I DO like Batman, and more than anything, I was just trying to bust Tim's chopps a bit, but, c'mon now... super speed, super strength, super agility, etc. but no super intelligence? You don't think Superman learned from all the times he went up against the super genius "Lex" (whom tried every trick in the book) to use Kryptonite on him? I don't buy it. Ability to ability, Batman gets thumped every time. ;)



- Josh