Re: HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray, and other matters....

John, I agree with you, but I have been curious about this format since I first heard about it about a month ago. I would like to at least see it for myself. HD-DVD and BD at this point have only penetrated less then 1% of the HD video market. If somebody BIG comes along and supports this cheaper format...then, who knows what will happen. I think that chance is very slim, but this market is very volitle and things do happen. The web page for these folks seems to indicate that they are at least moving on the Chinese and Indian markets but making inroads in the US will be a lot tougher.

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[Post edited by StevePro on Feb 16, 2007 - CST 9:56 AM]

I don't really see why it should be cheaper. From what I understand HD DVD can also be stored on DVD9, using more compression of course, but that would be true of this other format. Also, since current HD DVDs are based on dual layer technology similar, they should are very adaptable to existing DVD production lines - so I don't really see that much of an advantage.

You're missing the point, it doesn't mean that VMD is better than Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, but VMD is offering a CHEAPER HD option and the first one that offers that, will make a huge difference since the impediment for the massive acceptance of Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, is because both are MORE EXPENSIVE than standart DVD, and DVD movie releases are overpriced to begin with.

It took 3 to 4 years for DVD to reach massive acceptance amough consumers worldwide, even so upgrading to DVD offered a digital life-time durable option, against the analog susceptable to time option in VHS, clearly it helped that it wasn't another mayor digital media contender at that time, but DVD really started to kick in when buying a DVD player became CHEAPER, and DVD burners became availible... but DVD movies cost even more now than a decade ago.

That's why most consumers rather rent or borrow them, than buying overpriced standard DVD movies (it doesn't help that Hollywood hasn't produce a lot of good movies lately) and faced with even higher prices for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray releases, consumers show more reluctance to accept either format.

Because we face a different scenario, we already have DVD and we must choose amoung two HD options (or possibly three) with the only benefit of a higher quality at a higher cost, when standart DVD already offers us good quality... good enough for most consumers that don't buy DVD movies. Sure if you compare the first DVD releases from a decade ago, you'll notice a mayor quality improvement in any HD-DVD or Blu-Ray release, but also any recent standart DVD release improves from those first releases.

The reality is that prices for DVD media, players and burners are accesible to all consumers, but DVD movie releases (specially HD-DVD and Blu-Ray) are heavily overpriced, and that doesn't help neither of the HD formats to gain full consumer acceptance.

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[Post edited by genbar dardren on Feb 17, 2007 - CST 4:32 AM]

Like I said, I do not feel convinced that they have much of a price advantage, though of course we will see. HD movies can be stored at high compression rates on standard DVDs - with VC-1 you can even get decent quality movies on single layer standard DVDs, just take a look at the MS download market. And burning dual layer HD DVDs seems like it will take less changes to existing lines than burning 4 layer DVDs for this new format.

The laser assembly in the players is probably slightly more expensive on HD DVD, but that is a one time cost, and the price of the 360 add-on with all the extras it includes shows that even the hardware needs not be all that expensive.

So my point is, until shown otherwise, I can't see how they would have that much of an advantage for the prices of software for the new format, and mayba only a slight advantage for the hardware.

I thought DVD movies were cheap now. If a movie has been out for over a year, then most likely it's less than 10 bucks. I think the average DVD price now is under 10 bucks. I guess I'm missing something here, but aren't the studios deciding how their movies should be retailing for?

It's ridiculous to think it possible a third format could come in at this stage and even compete, much less win the HD war and the studios will charge whatever the hell they want anyway for their movies regardless of format. If it's in HD they will charge more. If it's new, they will charge more.

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[Post edited by BruceAmes on Feb 17, 2007 - CST 3:43 PM]

And obviously it's about CONTENT and the control/distribution of it.

Regardless of any new "hd" format(s) and/or downloading servies (already there are several), there is no guarantee of success and/or available product for these endeavours unless the content holders (studios etc) agree to support them!

This is why Blu-ray could eventually "win the hd disc war" (so-called) - well, at least here in the North American region - because it obviously has the stronger support from the various content holders, for Blu-ray (rom) movies/concerts/TV shows/etc.

Of course, there is no guarantee that the future of Blu-ray support will resemble what it has now. But unlike the major HD-DVD supporters Toshiba & Microsoft (who don't directly control much, if ANY, movie/concert/TVshow content), the opposite is true with the largest Blu-ray supporter [software/hardware] - SONY.

With Sony, they obviously control one of the largest catalogs of entertainment software (content) for future release on Blu-ray Disc.... many divisions like: Sony Films, Sony Classics, Columbia Pictures, Columbia Classics, Columbia/Tri-Star, MGM/UA (various), etc, Sony TV USA, Sony TV International, Sony Latino(?) Sony Music, Sony/BMG Music, Columbia Records, etc, ...and the Playstation 3 gaming angle.

Just a thought... perhaps Microsoft could use some of their billions and secure the purchase of a Hollywood studio, maybe a "biggie" like 20th Century FOX? That would guarantee a ton more HD-DVD releases for sure. Would have to receive federal approval, and a possible fight with a competitor (interested buyer) once a "takeover" is put into action.

-Love Hendrix!

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[Post edited by Love Hendrix! on Feb 18, 2007 - CST 2:44 PM]

"Just a thought... perhaps Microsoft could use some of their billions and secure the purchase of a Hollywood studio, maybe a "biggie" like 20th Century FOX? That would guarantee a ton more HD-DVD releases for sure. Would have to receive federal approval, and a possible fight with a competitor (interested buyer) once a "takeover" is put into action. "--Love Hendrix

Actually, on one hand, I wouldnt' mind if they tried, for no other reason than to draw attention to Sony Pictures. But on the other hand, I think it may set HD DVD up as the bad guy and a consumer backlash may follow and we wouldn't want that.

So with all the recent hoopla over Blu-Ray for the past week or so, I've been doing some thinking. I own an HD DVD player, but should Blu-Ray win: fine, so be it, I'll buy a Blu-Ray player. With that out of the way (showing that I'm biased, but would sway to Blu-Ray if given no choice), I was looking at some of the numbers of disc sales. Sure enough, BR is really getting ahead of HD DVD. Even the same title on HD DVD is underselling its Blu-Ray brother. Then I looked at player sales... of which there seems to be more HD DVD movement than Blu-Ray movement. So it's gotta be the PS3 or whatever add-on (I'm not a gamer, so I have no idea what I'm talking about there), right? And it surely looks like it is. And I've read on more than a few forums that these people with the PS3 are hooking them up to their non-HDTVs... meaning they're getting a 480i picture... meaning it's not HD at all... making me wonder why they're buying these discs in the first place?

Is there something I'm missing or have mis-read? What if... just what if... Blu-Ray "wins" because of the PS3, and not because of it's superior quality to that of HD DVD... but because all these people buy Blu-Ray discs for the "wrong" reason...? Like I said earlier, I'm fine with it either way. It just makes my skin crawl to think of a format winning due to advertising and a bunch of kids saying "Look what my game station can do!" Remember the UMD? Once the novelty of that wore off, so did the sales.

In respose to Hyde's posting, yes, Sony's PS3 strategy appears to be working, at least for now. Just keep in mind that there is not a lot of software available for that GAME player. When games do become available, the sale of BD movie disks should diminish somewhat. I think it was on this forum that I described an experience I had in a BB a few weeks ago with a KID buying a BD disk and stateing to me that he didn't have and HDtv. Yeah, some of these kids, perhaps a lot of them, are throwing their $$ away on BD disks when they can only watch them on at 480i, but Sony is setting the stage by drummmming the words BLu-Ray into their psychs. And I think it's working. All Sony has to do is keep releasing movies that appeal to this 18-29 year old group and they could very well prevail a few years up the road. It will be all over for HD-DVD after they release the highly anticipated concurrent releases of the BD film and game Saw 6 staring Brittany Spears. [OK, so much for my bad humor]! As far as BD pulling ahead in sales, as I said before, don't put too much stock in those Amazon charts on the DVD Wars. The sample is so small that the sale of a handful of one title is going to move those lines a lot. You are talking here of less then 1/2 of 1% of the movie buying public... Also, I am very suspect of the parallel movement of both the BD and HD-DVD lines which don't make a lot of sense. Another thing that does't make sense is the apparent rise in the number of BD disks available for sale...If they are selling so well, then why are the units on hand creeping up? It could be that Amazon is stocking up for a big blitz, but I doubt it.

If it ends up that BD wins this thing, then I'll probably give in [even though I said in the past that I would not] and buy a BD stand alone [and and HDMI switcher and an audio switcher...arrgh...mega $$$] but you can bet on two things:

1. The player won'y be a Sony and 2. It won't be from BB.

OK. I've vented for the day. Now I feel better.

The war is not over my friends :) This is on egadgethd.com today...

While the Blu-ray camp is busy claiming victory, recently HD DVD supporters seem to be circling the wagons around an old friend, the -- 'til now -- unused 3X DVD technology. HD DVD has always claimed it holds a price advantage over Blu-ray, by way of offering low cost upgrades for existing DVD manufacturing processes. The 3X DVD spec takes that a step further, while it's a part of the HD DVD format and apparently only compatible with HD DVD players, the discs themselves are physically exactly the same as standard red-laser DVDs. Throw in a software upgrade to support high definition content, HD DVD's UDF 2.5 file structure and AACS and you have a way to deliver HDTV content on a 9.4 GB DVD. By using newer encoding technologies like MPEG 4 and VC 1 and/or lowering the resolution to say, 720p, full length movies easily fit on a standard DVD. Eclipse Data Technologies, a supplier of HD DVD mastering equipment just announced it is offering free upgrades to its customers in order to support 3X DVD manufacturing. This was followed today by DCA Inc. announcing it has mastered the first 3X DVD disc, and that several manufacturers are looking at it as a possible low cost path into HD video. 3X DVD's potential to allow for noticeably lower-priced HD content to come to market is definitely there, but it still remains to be seen if this, like combo DVD/HD DVDs and Total Hi-Def discs will find a home and support in the marketplace.

The trojan horse cometh :)

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[Post edited by Falcon01 on Feb 19, 2007 - CST 6:03 PM]