Fox Kills Aliens & Predators

At the risk that I'm the only one that really cares about this, I'm going to post it anyway.

According to - EXTERNAL LINK - Fox has given up on both the Alien and Predator franchises. With the advent of the upcoming sequal to AVP, AVP2 is set to release this coming December 25th, with the much welcomed LACK of director Paul W.S. Anderson at the helm. The new brother directors, Colin & Greg Strause, only have special effects and music video experience, however, the directors do promise a throw back to the original visions of directors Ridley Scott and James Cameron (videos available at - EXTERNAL LINK - ).

The Strause brothers' experience, however, is not entirely lacking, with special effects experience on such films as "Terminator 3", "X3", and "Fantastic 4". While we're starting from scratch (yet again) in this new amalgamation of franchises, with Fox giving up on them, I don't know that any of the franchises have much hope of ever being resurrected to the acclaim and cult following they once did.

It's truely a sad day for Alien & Predator fans.



- Josh

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[Post edited by Nachtkriechen on Mar 14, 2007]

Hey Josh .. good to see you here :-). Unfortunately, I don't feel your pain of closure on the Alien - Predator series. Fox has been feeding us crap after crap in the Alien series. The series stopped making sense after Alien vs. Predator. In fact the series sucked after Alien 3 and 4. I am glad Fox has closed this series officially as they will have time and money to invest in something worthwhile.

--Ranjan

Hey Ranjan,

It's good to see you're still around as well. I hear your pain on the Alien series, but, don't necessarily agree. If you bought the 9 disc special edition of the Alien series, you know there are directors cuts of the movies therein. Judging purely on the theatrical releases, I'd agree with you that Alien 3 was the worst of them. However, after watching the behind the scenes interviews, and bonus material, as well as the director's cut of Alien 3, the story made a lot more sense than the theatrical release, and is a better cut version, in my opinion.

I liked Alien 4, (or Resurrection), but for me, it was the most disturbing of the films, and as such, I watch it the least. I thought it was a fairly creative way to bring Sigourney Weaver back into the picture, though.

If you ever read the comic books "Aliens Vs. Predator", AVP (for the fans) was a long time in the coming. Unfortunately, with the director of such box office hits (sarcasm intended), as "Mortal Kombat", "Soldier", and "Resident Evil", we couldn't expect much, and got even less from Paul W.S. Anderson. The comic book series is rather good, if you're into comics at all, and the story line is head and Shoulders above what Anderson came up with in his 2004 flop. What's even worse, is Anderson calls himself a fan of both franchises. Maybe he should leave directing to the directors, and just stay a fan?



- Josh

I realise I'm resurecting this thread, but now that AVP2 has a title "AVP2: Requiem", I find it appropriate. Requiem: "<i>a. Also called Requiem Mass. the Mass celebrated for the repose of the souls of the dead.</i>" - Dictionary.com One can only assume the title refers to the fallen Predators in the first AVP. Though, I think "AVP Episode II: The Predators Strike Back" might get a better response with sci-fi nerds, like myself.

As a fan, I can only hope that the Strause brothers will bring the franchise back into the scary sci/fi genre. In interviews the Strause brothers have not only promised an "R" rating, but a movie closer to the look and feel of the "Alien" and "Aliens" movies.

At the end of AVP we saw an Alien burst from the dead Predator's chest as a hybrid of the two, further following the story of the AVP franchise. Weather the Strause brothers keep this hybrid "Predalien" or "Praetorian" as part of their movie, remains to be seen. We're only 3 months away from the release of "AVP2: Requiem", and I know I probably shouldn't get my hopes up, but, I think its too late.



- Josh

If I were running Fox, I'd give up on the franchise, too. It lost its edge years ago, and instead of getting any originality added to the story, we simply get the same antics of gross-outs and horror movie clichés. In fact, we've become so accustomed to the monsters that they're not even scary, thus we have nothing to frighten us which is what made the early films successful. Face it, Alien, Aliens and Predator are about as good as it gets and it should have ended there. Everything following has been nothing more than the same mediocre thrills seen in teenage-slasher flicks. Nevertheless, Hollywood needs to keep those kids at ILM employed, so quick and dirty work is always a good way to support that dental plan.

alien really has run its course. what else is there to do? Alien 4 felt tired. Only thing to do is a remake of Alien. Same with Predator. It's a novelity. I doubt AVP2 will clear 20 million at the box office. It will do well on DVD and BD, but I have low expectations. Unless someone comes along with a new idea I think it's same to say RIP for both franchises.

!!!! T R A I L E R !!!!

Well, I can't disagree with both of you on your points, but, after watching this trailer, WOW, it seems to have gotten it's EDGE back! This thing looks intense! Or at very least, the trailer was intense!

Check it out - EXTERNAL LINK -

- Josh

Not for me, Josh. That preview screams rental, if even that. Looks like the same old antics, as I pointed out earlier, that we've seen a million times. Youngsters being chased by the bogyman has run its course years ago, if you ask me. Why can't they come up with something fresh and original? Perhaps have our monsters chase old WWII vets in a retirement community or make a lunch out of Attorneys at a Lawyers convention. Point is, give us anything else besides the same ol'-same old. And this is what I mean by losing its edge -- the franchise has nothing new to offer us. They know this yet they'll throw one more bone at us to fill that cash cow because they know there'll be enough suckers out there to buy into it. In my opinion, I wish people would get off their @ss and protest Hollywood for garbage like this. I wish it was like the 60's when people would march in protest when they were tired of being taken advantage of. All this movie deserves is straight to video then to the trash can . . . I'll pick the trash can first.

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[Post edited by Tim Raynor on Sep 24, 2007]

i was never too crazy about the alien films or predator films, but i did enjoy AVP.. after watching the trailer, it does not attract my attention that much...

and i give.. pretty mutch anything a try.

Oh well. I guess I'm the last surviving Alien & Predator fan, here at DVDTown. I'm starting to feel like Kurt Russell in "Big Trouble In Little China", talking on the C.B. Radio to himself.... "You know what ol' Jack Burton says..."



- Josh

No, you're not the only one, I still adore Alien and Aliens along with the first Predator. I suppose I'd always retained a bit of hope that Fox would go back and make these series respectable again, but I was never really expecting them to. Aliens vs. Predator- Requim does look to be potentially decent, and the Strause brothers talked about wanting to do more, perhaps expanding into only the Alien universe, so you never know.
-Chase

That trailer doesn't look too bad, I may actually go to the theatre for this one. I thought Aliens was ok when they came out in the theatres but I always though the Predator was very cool. I remember once having a conversation with someone about the Predator vs Boba Fett and we debated forever on who would win :) The Predator has great potential in my opinion if done right and that's something I would love to see. Alien I feel has run it's course.

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[Post edited by Falcon01 on Sep 25, 2007]

Thanks, Chase and Falcon01. I'm glad to see that there are at least 2 others besides myself.

Chase, I think for the Alien series to be "respectable" again, would take a director and producer that were fenatical fans of Ridley Scott's Alien. Ridley kept us all on edge by giving us glimpses of the Alien here and there, and when you did get a glimpse, you weren't entirely sure what you saw, and the only thing you were sure of, was that whatever it was, was terrifying! You don't see the Alien in all it's glory until you think its dead, when "Ripley" blows up the main ship. And just when you think you're safe... WHAM, here's the Alien coming out of the woodwork to get us again! Ridley Scott is a BRILLIANT director, and is extremely adept at scaring his audience. Unfortunately, he hasn't done anything close to scaring us since Alien, unless you count "Hannibal" in 2001.

Directors today are too willing to show us everything from the beginning. Half of the reason we get scared in films like these (when we're allowed to get scared) is when the director allows our imaginations to run away with us. Any "hack" can cut from one frame to the next and have a "scary" creature full frame in the camera, or leaping into the camera. We've become so accustomed to that, that (as Tim mentioned) it's just not scary anymore.

Falcon01,

I think what I mentioned above also applys in the case of the Predator. The first Predator movie was AWESOME! "Predator 2", not so much. In Predator 1, it was a similar approach as Ridley Scott's approach to "Alien", where we know "something" is there, but we don't know what, except that we get to see through it's eyes occasionally and a blurry figure running through the forest. It's not until over half way through the film that we catch our first look at this not only terrifying, but intelligent creature! What happens in the first AVP? 15 minutes in, we see full-frontal Predators and Aliens. 25 minutes in, we get some really cool fighting action, and lose 2/3 of the Predators, and the third is mortally wounded. Once we've seen the "scary" creatures fully, a large portion of the "unknown" is taken away, and as such, so is the fear. The film then takes one of three directions... how much action, or gore, or both can the director throw at the audience. At that point, today's audience starts to yawn.

I agree with Tim on many levels, especially originality. Though, I do think that most films aren't entirely without some merrit. However, this doesn't just apply to sci-fi/horror films, it applys to every film being released today. I don't think we've seen true originality in Sci-Fi since "The Fifth Element". And as far as Horror goes today, they might as well change the genre to Shocking/Disturbing/Gross Out. Though the Horror genre has had "elements" of shock, or disturbing imagery that grosses us out in the past, it's never been reliant upon it. That's not true for today's Horror genre.

I think the problem is, we've become a lazy movie audience. We've relied on movies and TV for so long to entertain us, that we go to the movies with the mentality of "I hope it doesn't suck", instead of doing like Tim mentions, and just plain skip the film altogether. Maybe we'll get so bored with Hollywood's lack of originality, that we'll actually start reading books more than we watch TV or go to movies? Now there's a novel idea! Yuck yuck yuck!



- Josh

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[Post edited by Nachtkriechen on Sep 25, 2007]

AVP is one of the few movies on BD that would look great on the HD DVD format. I thought that was a awesome series.

Well Josh, it was a gallant effort while it lasted, but someone just had to come in here and mention how great it will look on BD and HD. For once we were all talking about "film" like we used to a couple years ago, and for a moment it was actually fun. However, you get one fanboy to post something about HD and an entire slue of fanboys will follow to pollute your thread. I mean, pay not attention that Josh did post this topic in the "in theatres" section of the message board.

Well, I'm also a fan of both the ALIEN series and PREDATOR series.

Speaking of Predator, let's remember that a key element to both films' enjoyment was provided by the late Keven Peter Hall, the tall African-American man who played the "predator" [1 and 2, who also was in "Harry and the Hendersons"].

Many fans will agree that it wasn't just the visual effects and/or the directing/editing that made these films pay off, rather Mr. Hall "owned" the predator character by his slick and graceful movements.

Hall's predator never seems to have cheesy, or phony movements, and he really makes it "lifelike", as a lesser-quality actor could have made the predator "character" look poorly [or even an obvious fake existence to viewers], if the movements weren't done right.

The producers were thrilled with Hall's performances, even with the weaker script of Predator 2. Here was a "giant" of a man who provided what seems to us viewers as simplistic natural movements, yet surely were not that easy to do.

Granted, the added visual effects also helped augment Hall's work, but when I viewed Alien vs Predator, which was OK but not great, I kept thinking how much I missed Hall, and wished that he were still alive to continue the role.

I believe Hall's death in 1991 was a secondary reason that the producers didn't attempt a 3rd movie in the 1990s, and letting the series die until A-vs-P revived the Predator role. Of course, Predator 2's popularity and box office results were much less than the original movie (especially worldwide box office).

KEVIN PETER HALL Biographical Info - EXTERNAL LINK -

Hall - "I'm not just somebody shuffling around in a monster suit. I'm a kind of puppeteer from the inside who is attempting through arm and body movements to give the creatures I play a sense of personality."

Hall - "With the Predator it is half performance and half dealing with the physical traps. There's a balance you got to keep inside the suit. You've got to keep your character going while dealing with the fact that you've got all these wires and FX things coming out of you. It all boils down to concentration and being well-rehearsed."

-Love Hendrix! (The Loverboy)

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[Post edited by Love Hendrix! on Sep 26, 2007]

IMDB also lists Hall as the helicopter pilot. Just a bit of trivia. (=

Tim, just for clarification....

TRIVIA NOTE - "Kevin Peter Hall can be seen in Predator 1 without costume. He is the helicopter pilot at the end of the film."

I haven't watched PREDATOR lately, but I remember there is also a helicopter scene near the beginning of the military group's operation, so if you can see -that- particular pilot in the scene, it obviously wouldn't be Hall, rather someone else (since the Trivia info you mention states he is seen without costume only at the end of the film). Will have to watch it again :-))

I never have bought these on DVD, as I own the Fox Widescreen LaserDiscs from the 1990s. Might look to buy each on the newer Collector's DVD SpEd sets released a few years ago. Of course, unless Fox changes their plans, these films will be Blu-ray only here in North America (with possible HD DVD imports from other regions, if released).

-Love Hendrix! (The Loverboy)

I don't have either of them on DVD, too. I'm not quite sure why because I really do enjoy the first one -- of course there are many films I love that I still don't have on DVD. The second film has a few cool moments but not as good as the first movie. The thing that kills me about Predator II is all it needed was Mel Gibson and it could have been called Lethal Weapon 3.5.


Tim (=

HDLover,

At some point, I'm sure the AVP films will be on HDDVD.


Love Hendrix,

Thank you for mentioning Kevin Peter Hall. You are 100% right! He WAS the Predator! I assume you bought the "collector's edition" Predator DVD that came out around the time of AVP? The special features on that disc were pretty cool! I watched all of the interviews, and the one with Kevin Peter Hall was great. He's just an amazing actor. As I recall, the director mentions that Kevin is OVER 7 feet tall! The new actors portraying the Predator would do well to study his movements and try to mimic them.


Tim,

Well, every conversation wanders from time to time, internet message boards aren't that different. Though, it is nice to stay on topic. As you've mentioned numerous times in the past, we talk enough about HD on this site to bore even the inventors! Though, it seems like any time people get caught up in the "HD arguements", they start acting like quibbling rivals at a football game. One side or the other will win, pick a side, support them, and lets get back to talking about the real topic of film, story lines, and what we liked or didn't like about them!

Concerning Predator 2: Unfortunately, as a sequel, it will always be compared to the first, and as such, it has BIG shoes to fill. How did it measure up to the first? Not so well. However, it did take a drastic direction that I don't think any of us expected, and did quite well at making us guess what was going to happen next. I have to admit, after I first saw the first Predator, I thought if they ever did do another, it would probably be set in the jungles again. I never would have guessed it would take place in one of the biggest cities in the US. I really liked that aspect of Preadator 2. The action involved with the drug wars and what not, as a secondary plot line/distraction, wasn't too bad either. Putting Danny Glover and Gary Busy in the film as main characters, threw me for a loop, and they did ok, but they would not have been my first choices for the roles. Adding the Predator ship at the end of the film with multiple Predators aboard, and having an "Alien" scull on the trophy wall, was a stroke of genius, and had kids and adults alike, talking about a fight between an Alien and Predator for YEARS! Then, when Paul Anderson comes along and (as a fan, himself) makes the first AVP, he gives us all hope, shows us a pretty intense first onscreen fight between the two creatures, but drops the ball entirely on dialogue, plot, plot building, character building, and even believability of the Predators. But, at least Paul Anderson got the ball rolling. Maybe the Strause brothers will be able to clean up his mess?



- Josh

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[Post edited by Nachtkriechen on Sep 26, 2007]

Great follow-up post Tim! Completely agree with your jab about adding Mel Gibson - Predator 2 DOES have the look and plot-action of a LW movie. I did like the surprise "underground" ending, and the multiple predators etc.

Today, I decided to purchase the $14.99 2-disc Fox SpEd DVD of the first PREDATOR [and ordered a few CDs to get free shipping from Amazon for orders over $25], and look forward to watching it again, this time in Anamorphic 16X9.

I did rent the first PREDATOR DVD release of many years ago [Netflix], but it was not enhanced for 16x9 [although I didn't own a Widescreen TV back then, rather a Sony Wega flat-screen 27" CRT TV], nor did it have the dts 5.1 track of the newer editions.

Once I find the same SpEd set for PREDATOR 2 on discount sale, I'll pick it up then. I'd rather watch both films on a future Blu-ray disc [Fox], especially the 2nd movie because of the many lower light settings [such as during the subway/predator action scene], as a Blu-ray disc will pick up more details during those types of darker scenes.

And, like others, I hope the next installment is an improvement over A-vs.-P!

-Love Hendrix! (The Loverboy)

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[Post edited by Love Hendrix! on Sep 26, 2007]