Re: Onkyo TX-SR805: Review of HD audio

Quote:
Personally I found the Onkyo doing a better job than the the XA2. Not saying that the analog out option is bad jut not at par with the HDMI solution.

Henning, if you want to test what we're saying is true, do the following:

1) Set the XA2 to output PCM through HDMI.
2) Using an SPL meter, note the dB levels while playing an audio calibration disc.
3) Watch your favorite reference HD-DVD scene.

4) Set the XA2 to bitstream through HDMI.
5) Use the SPL meter and adjust the receiver levels until the dB level is the same as previously when it was being decoded internally (there is a tendency to think something sounds better when it is actually louder)
6) Replay the same reference scene and listen for differences. It should sound exactly the same!

In both instances, the DAC in the player is bypassed and it is a pure digital to digital signal going to the receiver using HDMI. Only difference is where the decoding is done. Either way, the receiver is doing actual "work", converting the digital signal to something that speakers can understand (along with various processing, if available).

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[Post edited by shaddai on Dec 19, 2007]

Hi,
I have a Toshiba XA2 and a Sony S1 Blu-Ray! I have them rigged up to the new Denon 4308 with Chord 1.3a Silver Plus HDMI cables!
But I can never get my Receiver to light up with the codecs as you mention!
I usually get Multichannel or the Normal Dolby Digital lighting up!
I have never been able to get Dolby Digital plus, Dolby True HD or somewhat like to come on!
I presumed it was just firmware, but I am running the latest firmware on both machines!
Please advise on any settings I should check!
My Machines are coupled with HDMI and set to Bitstream!

Quote:
I have a Toshiba XA2 and a Sony S1 Blu-Ray! I have them rigged up to the new Denon 4308 with Chord 1.3a Silver Plus HDMI cables!
But I can never get my Receiver to light up with the codecs as you mention!

Gusfielden, assuming you have the latest firmware (2.7 for the XA2), you will want to make sure that you have the following audio setup in the XA2:

1) AUDIO-->DIGITAL DIRECT AUDIO MODE.
2) Set DIGITAL DIRECT AUDIO MODE to ON and DIGITAL OUT HDMI to Auto.

An informative thread can be found here for all the details of the latest firmware:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=937992

Edit: Oh, as far as I know, the Sony S1 does not have bitstreaming capability of HBR audio over HDMI other than straight uncompressed PCM and doesn't have internal decoders for DolbyTrueHD or DTS-HD MA. The S1 is a first gen BD player and like most players in that period, is greatly limited (price of being an early adopter, I guess). Someone correct me if firmware has changed all that. If you want to see the new codecs light up on your Denon 4308, stick with the XA2 for that!

Good luck!

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[Post edited by shaddai on Dec 20, 2007]

I am glad I left the 1 % chance of being wrong. It seems that you guys are correct with repects to lossless audio through HDMI. It is capable using PCM. As I am an early adopter to any new tech (SACD/DVD Audio, HD, Plasma's - 11 years and counting and still working fine), the XA1 when I first purchased could only do TrueHD in stereo only. Then came the firmware update and it could do 5.1 channel HD audio. It was at that time that I tried the HDMI to run TrueHD and it would not work, no matter which way (PCM/Bitstream), so I gave up on HDMI for the sound. Since then all the hook ups I've done have 5.1 outs or recently HDMI Bitstream. Somewhere along the line with one of the firmware updates, XA1 and the others do now work with the HDMI PCM, so you guys are right. I was speaking from previous experiences when you couldn't. I will now have my humble pie. Thanks for the info, although it really doesn't change what I have been doing, it's nice to pass on to my guys that they can enjoy the new sound from a receiver with older HDMI's. And for the record, the sound from HDMI verses the 5.1 with the cables I have ( 3 pairs of Audioquest King Cobras - 279.99 each) sound amazing CLOSE. Not much, if any difference. Of course I have MSeries HDMI, but I expected the cobras to smoke it, not the case. There is a difference, again with the receiver doing the decoding (1.3), again having heard the receiver decode it and the dvd, not to beat a dead horse, but I prefer the DVD doing the decoding for reasons already mentioned. Thanks again.

Movieguy, previously you had mentioned some namebrands that made me think you would rather do separates instead of letting the player do the decoding. The "ideal" system has the player output bitstream to a processor which in turn feeds a power amplifier before going to the speakers. Separates are preferred over the "all in one" receiver for its expansion capabilities as well as less interference b/w devices. Only downside with separates are cost and multiple devices needing shelf space.

I wouldn't expect much of a downgrade going from analog to HDMI. As a matter of fact, the large range in quality of analog cables can give you different biases in the treble and bass regions. I own some Audioquest cables myself but I would never have purchased if I didn't have an employee discount. HDMI and the HD formats have introduced a whole new audiophile world to the common joe. Lossless sound can be enjoyed by all! Too bad SACD and DVD-Audio are going to die off before people even discover them.

Shaddai!
Many thanks! What you said worked a treat!
I hadn't switched the direct Audio on, on the Toshiba! Do Toshiba not do new manuals to download now they have changed menu's!
Anyway many thanks and have a great christmas!

Don't suppose you know how to do the same if possible with my Sony S1 Blu-ray, the menu's are quite basic!
Will I need to buy a new Blu-Ray player! I also have a PS3 should that work like the Tosh and is there anything I should check in my settings! My PS3 doesn't show up Dolby True HD or anything!

Please advise!

Quote:
Don't suppose you know how to do the same if possible with my Sony S1 Blu-ray, the menu's are quite basic!
Will I need to buy a new Blu-Ray player! I also have a PS3 should that work like the Tosh and is there anything I should check in my settings! My PS3 doesn't show up Dolby True HD or anything!

Please advise!

Gusfielden, unfortunately your Sony S1 is a first gen dead-end. It can't ever give you the lossless formats as it can't decode them internally and it can't bitstream it through HDMI either. You don't need to buy a new Blu-ray player as the PS3 is arguably the best one! As a matter of fact, the PS3 just became Profile 1.1 compliant with the latest firmware this week. It will also be 2.0 compliant when that day comes (1.1 compliant players now typically cannot be upgraded to 2.0).

The PS3 will give you the lossless formats differently than how your XA2 is bitstreaming to the receiver. Since the PS3 can internally decode DolbyTrueHD and also send the "core" of DTS-HD MA, you should make sure your HDMI is set to "PCM" instead of "Bitstream" in the audio setup. Although you won't see the lossless codec light up on your receiver, you will still receive the TrueHD sound converted to PCM, which is the same quality as if you had done it in the receiver! Of all the current players in the world (including HD-DVD ones), only the PS3 has been rumored to get internal DTS-HD MA decoding through firmware. The PS3 being somewhat of a supercomputer might have something to do with that! Enjoy lossless audio from both your XA2 and your PS3!

Henning I have a question that I don't know if you can answer.

Do the 605 and 805 have the same audio DAC's? I just got a nice offer on the 605 and even though it's only 90 watts per channel it's pretty much an offer I may not be able to refuse.

Actually a quick search on Google answered my question. It looks like the 805 has the Burr Brown DAC as does my current Yamaha receiver. Now I really don't know what to do :p

Comparison at the Onkyo site here

605 to 705
Adds Preamp outputs
Adds THX Select 2
Adds an extra HDMI input (3)
Adds optical out
Change from Audyssey 2EQ to Audyssey MultiEQ
Change from 100 to 250ms A/V Sync

705 to 805
Change to THX Ultra 2
Adds Dual Push-Pull amplification
Change from Cirrus Logic to Burr Brown DACs
Adds zone 3 audio out
Adds an extra Svideo in (6)
Change from L/R to 7.1 ch tone control
Change to a larger case

805 to 875
Adds an extra HDMI input (4)
Adds Reon upscaling chip
Adds Vector Linear Shaping Circuit to all channels
Adds zone 2 video out (composite)
Allows bridging of speakers (not much use IMO)

In simple terms, going to the 805 should give you better audio with the change in the DACs/amplification. The VLSC on the 875 will also potentially make some improvement. Going to the 875 will improve the video output (provided that you need upscaling, may improve upconversion)


http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=665197

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[Post edited by Falcon01 on Dec 21, 2007]

Falcon01,

Here's my two cents. If you don't ever plan on buying the XA2 or anything that has the Reon chip for that matter, go for the 875. Otherwise, the 805 is just as good if not satisfactory to videophiles. Note that the Faroudja solution on lower end Onkyos are not compatible with certain displays because of macroblocking.

Shaddai, you're a good man. I think I'll just wait around for a good price on the XA2