Terminator 3 has Blu problems

Lame Warner, Lame...

To all those affected by this problem . . .

lol

mvckalel, I wouldn't blame Warner for this one. If bluray had their product working properly (i.e. interactive features) Warner wouldn't have had this problem. Thats the bottom line.

Old news now, but yes, it must be format related. At least owners of cheap Toshiba HD DVD players don't have to worry about this problem, everything is 1080i anyway.

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[Post edited by Skyhawk on Jan 1, 2008]

Hey, Warner keeps messing around with us...the Superman Collection, the Harry Potter collection, the Blade Runner Collection....why dont we name some other mistakes by Warner?

I know I'm setting my own self up with this one.

I say let HDDVD have them, they use the VC-1 codec that alot of people claim is inferior to the AVC codec. They take the VC-1 masters intened for HDDVD and use it for Blu ray. Disney, Fox, and Sony uses AVC. So HDDVD can have WB. They screw up all of their Blu ray titles anyway.

To be fair the HD DVD version of Terminator 3 is encoded in 1080P/24 fps with interactive features and it has ZERO issues.

All the issues Warner is having with the bluray versions of the same movies have to do with the format, not the studio.

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All the issues Warner is having with the bluray versions of the same movies have to do with the format, not the studio.

Agreed. This is why Disney, Tartan, BCI, Fox, MGM, New Line. and Lionsgate often can't get 1080p on their Blu-ray releases either. They've also been known to put HD DVD titles within Blu-ray box sets as well. So it's not just a Warner problem. And the fact that Warner cannot reissue a 1080p release of Terminator 3 on Blu-ray to correct this problem is obviously indicative of the limitations of the Blu-ray format.

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So HDDVD can have WB. They screw up all of their Blu ray titles anyway.

I'm not sure if I agree with your premise, but you do have a point about the duel format studio issue in one way. To save costs, the big duel format studios (Warner) normally use the same encode for both formats instead of optimizing them for their relative strengths. I've often wondered what a 18Mbps average VC-1 would have looked like had it been optimized with 30+Mbps AVC encode with lossless L-PCM for the Blu-ray version. I'm guessing we have to wait at least 3 years to find out!

So why don't the HD DVD version of the same movies have any issues? You're right, bluray is superior

I guess all those bluray re-issues for poor video quality and those software updates they have to scramble to get out to the customers because the interactive features don't work on new releases (ahem Fantastic Four), ya that's not an issue with bluray at all.

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[Post edited by Falcon01 on Jan 1, 2008]

Well I think only the problems on this particular Warner title, come from the Blu-Ray format. In this case fakeing PIP because it isn't a 1.1 disc.

movielover.....bd is faking it?....wtf????
its the superior format, so $ony says....it cant be true.....





im lying its not a superior format at all......

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Well I think only the problems on this particular Warner title, come from the Blu-Ray format. In this case fakeing PIP because it isn't a 1.1 disc.

Considering Warner could have easily put 3 versions of the 1080p movie on the disk and still have room for lossless L-PCM, at least the less fanatical HD DVD shrills among us realize that Warner has some serious quality control issues that has nothing to do with formats.

Warner could have also chosen to put true PiP on this Blu-ray release, but their history of cutting corners to save a few dollars by not providing separate encodes for the two formats to take advantage of each format's strengths makes this unsurprising. This is one reason why I hope more studios don't go duel format - well just get the lowest common denominator that works with both.

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I guess all those bluray re-issues for poor video quality and those software updates they have to scramble to get out to the customers because the interactive features don't work on new releases (ahem Fantastic Four), ya that's not an issue with bluray at all.

The Blu-ray "re-issues for poor video quality" you refer to is the early Blu-ray release of "The Fifth Element" that was recalled due to softness caused by post-processing to remove all film grain by Sony (DNR), and has nothing to do with the format itself. Sony choose to redo this and offer a free exchange, and I commend them for that. It seems the early adopters like myself have voted that we don't want film grain removed at the expense of detail loss. I'm glad Sony listened. I just wish more studios for both HD DVD and Blu-ray offer a free exchange on their early duds when these inevitably get redone. I hate paying for double-dipping (but I'll likely do it anyway).

It's understandable that a non-technical person who has little knowledge of what hi-definition disk formats actually are would get mixed up and think "The Fifth Element" was recalled because of a Blu-ray format limitation, especially when it seems you don't own either format. I know this because if you did at least own HD DVD, you'd know they've also scrambled to get firmware updates out several times within the last year, and you'd be experienced at installing them by now.

True, but a firmware update on my HD-DVD player doesn't render it obsolete, unlike Blu's profile 1.1.
Doesn't affact me, though, since I have the only player Blu is really concerned with (PS3).

Let's be smart. This is not a Blu issue or an HD-DVD issue (unless you're a regular at bluray.com, then I think even the Crucifixtion was HD-DVD's fault) its Warner's replication plant. Its not because its dual format (and is this a new Blu tactic to compare VC-1 to AVC? It's like FauxNews...one person says something and suddenly I see it repeated consistently right thereafter. Did Blu hire Karl Rove?) but because people aren't doing their job. Plain and simple.

My argument remains, these issues don't happen on the HD DVD version of the same movies and it's not because it's inferior in any way. Reality is bluray is STILL an incomplete format. The only bluray players that can use the picture-in-picture feature on bluray movies are PS3 and Pansonic DMP-BD30 at this moment. You think this is ok? How many different models of bluray players are out there? What happened to all those early adopters? Might as well tell everyone to get a PS3.

Personally I've only updated my HD DVD player once, the day I got it, and I have had no issues at all, not once. The only reason I updated it is to make sure I had the latest software. Every HD DVD player made since day one has an ethernet port for updates and will be able to use picture-in-picture and every other interactive feature the studios throw at them. No software updates needed. Not all bluray players even have ethernet ports so you won't be able to update them. Imagine getting one of these players and trying to use PIP and it doesn't work. What do you tell that customer? Sorry Sir your model cannot use the picture-in-picture feature. So the movie says it has PIP but my player can't use it, nice

There are just too many headaches with bluray and its one problem after another. Imagine you're a studio and you have to plan out the interactive features on the disk. What would you plan it around, profile 1.1, 2.0? It's a nightmare. What other profiles will they have to plan around?

Robocop and The Fifth Element were not the only movies that looked attrocious on bluray but you're right they re-issued them with better versions and switched them for free, good move.

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To be fair the HD DVD version of Terminator 3 is encoded in 1080P/24 fps with interactive features and it has ZERO issues.

All the issues Warner is having with the bluray versions of the same movies have to do with the format, not the studio.

roger that. i own this one. as a matter of fact i never had ANY problems, and I'm about to hit 50 HDDVD Titles.

Good point Falcon, I do agree with Skyhawk that Warner has had some serious quality control issues, as the recent problems with the Bladerunner and Harry Potter have shown. However if the 1.1 profile had been finalized at Blu-Ray launch, warner wouldn't have had to fake PIP so the extras work on every Blu-ray player on the market, not just the PS3 and the Panasonic.

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My argument remains, these issues don't happen on the HD DVD version of the same movies and it's not because it's inferior in any way. Reality is bluray is STILL an incomplete format. The only bluray players that can use the picture-in-picture feature on bluray movies are PS3 and Pansonic DMP-BD30 at this moment.

Regardless about your feelings concerning PiP and your opinion on the "completeness of the Blu-ray format", how does PiP cause a studio to include an HD DVD instead of a Blu-ray in their Blu-ray box set? How does PiP cause a studio to mistakenly issue a 1080i version of a movie? Or is this PiP rant of yours just a silly attempt to derail the original thread and it's subject?

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how does PiP cause a studio to include an HD DVD instead of a Blu-ray in their Blu-ray box set?

I dont think warner cares too much. lol. they making movie from both sides... doing what they please. and screwin up here and there. lol

Well as far as including the HD DVD version of the movie in a bluray box set, well there's no excuse for that. As for the 1080i thing...it could have been human error or maybe it was the only way they could fit two copies of the movies on the same 25GB bluray disk. Remember that originally the only way to make PIP work on a bluray disk was to copy the movie twice on the same disk hence The Decent needing a 50GB bluray disk in order to have PIP.

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As for the 1080i thing...it could have been human error or maybe it was the only way they could fit two copies of the movies on the same 25GB bluray disk.

T3 on Blu-ray was released with 1080i on a 50GB disk - not 25. 1080p is also printed on the cover. All newer Blu-ray releases are on 50GB disks (almost without exception), regardless of any PiP implementation. Warner has already acknowledged this as a mistake on their part, and will be issuing a disk replacement program for affected buyers in the near future.

That should clarify the situation for you.

Yes it did

So I was checking out the reviews for the Panasonic DMP-BD30K bluray player (the only one that is profile 1.1 compliant other than the PS3) and I noticed this little gem at cnet.com "no Ethernet jack for firmware upgrades or future interactive content."

http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/panasonic-dmp-bd30k/4505-6463_7-32730548.html

Then I read this about the PS3 "For whatever reason, the PS3 does not support bitstream output -- no, not even TrueHD -- only PCM, and since there's no DTS HD decoder built in, that leaves out one of the hottest new codecs."

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/02/why-the-ps3-isnt-the-best-blu-ray-player/

The hits just keep on comin'.

By the way, my fav quote from the cnet.com review of the bluray player...

"While the DMP-BD30's Blu-ray image quality is excellent, we wouldn't say that it's necessarily better than other top-performing Blu-ray players. In fact, as along as the player is capable of properly performing 1080i deinterlacing, we've seen virtually no performance differences between Blu-ray players, including the PlayStation 3. Similarly, we've seen no difference in image quality between Blu-ray and HD DVD."

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[Post edited by Falcon01 on Jan 2, 2008]

Skyhawk,


You are right about the 5th Element, and because SONY replaced these disc free of charge and shipped them by FedEX shows that at least they realized that the movie was a DUD as far as picture quality and made sure that their customers were not left with a bad taste in their mouth about Blu ray. And also as a result of SONY's efforts on remastering the 5th Element, it became the best Blu ray title that I've ever seen.

As far as the PS3, there is no better player (HDDVD or Blu ray) on the market. The thing is darn near future proof. It easely betters IMO the HDXA2 and it's cheaper.

Falcom i knew about the ps3 audio. but good to know the details, and about the i though would be better profile 1.1 player.

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As far as the PS3, there is no better player (HDDVD or Blu ray) on the market. The thing is darn near future proof. It easely betters IMO the HDXA2 and it's cheaper.

Tony how is the PS3 better than the HD XA2? Does it have the 5.1 analogue outputs like the XA2? Does it have Reon HQV chip for upconverting regular DVD's like the XA2 does? Let's not forget the PS3 has this little audio issue I mentioned above "the PS3 does not support bitstream output -- no, not even TrueHD -- only PCM, and since there's no DTS HD decoder built in, that leaves out one of the hottest new codecs."

The PS3 is a nice gaming machine, I totally agree BUT if you're using it primarily for movie watching, the HD XA2 is a much better machine.

By the way I have seen brand new XA2's on ebay for $400 but at the moment I can only see one on there and it's $580 U.S. for some reason.

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[Post edited by Falcon01 on Jan 2, 2008]

Falcon quoted:

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Then I read this about the PS3 "For whatever reason, the PS3 does not support bitstream output -- no, not even TrueHD -- only PCM, and since there's no DTS HD decoder built in, that leaves out one of the hottest new codecs."

The PS3 does bitstream some codecs: including DD and DTS with various bitrates.

Here's a trick question: How many HD DVD players decode DTS HD MA? Zero of course. Both the PS3 and all high definition players (current HD DVD & Blu-ray) decode the DTS 1.5 lossy core from this codec only. Luckily Blu-ray normally includes a L-PCM/48kHz lossless uncompressed track when DTS HD MA is used.

Do realize that there are disadvantages to bitstreaming codecs out to your receiver and having the receiver decode them. The main one is loss of secondary audio, which rather negates the entire PiP experience when overlayed audio is featured.

With all the problems with The Warner release of Terminator 3 (Blu-Ray) and others. It now makes perfect sense to why The Matrix Trilogy has not been brought out for Blu-Ray. it would probably have problems for Blu-Ray.

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Tony how is the PS3 better than the HD XA2? Does it have the 5.1 analogue outputs like the XA2? Does it have Reon HQV chip for upconverting regular DVD's like the XA2 does?

The XA2 is a great hi-def media player, and upscales/deinterlaces standard DVDs better than even the PS3 (which comes close, but not quite). I just darn hope that Toshiba doesn't think they can discontinue this high-end stuff and replace it with the A35. Perhaps it may not make a difference to the J6P crowd, but please Toshiba, keep at least one new generation player with this kind of spec.

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With all the problems with The Warner release of Terminator 3 (Blu-Ray) and others. It now makes perfect sense to why The Matrix Trilogy has not been brought out for Blu-Ray. it would probably have problems for Blu-Ray.

you're in the clouds.