Re: Warner Bros. did not take any money to choose Blu-ray

If this happens to be true, it makes it easier to get out of a contract....maybe HD DVD isn't dead....

JPSoftCa wrote:

Quote:
For those of you who have never tried HD DVD, then you might want to keep an ambient light on in the room while you view your Blu-ray "Sunshine" for the first time...I wouldn't want any of you to experience siezures from the awe of it all!

You made me laugh with that one which is the first time in a while on these forums. Well said

With that I bid good night to all.

Okay so 500,000,000 free blank blu-ray discs then... Either way, I still don't believe it because, like I've said before, engadget spoke of an inside Time Warner Memo where the only thing left to speculate was whether it was 250,000,000 or 500,000,000 so I would be inclined to be the speculation by engadget rather than a company prepared speech to the public.

I read these forums all the time, and the replies to this topic have finally caused me to speak out.

The HD format war is NOT helping the industry, as so many people say. The format war is the largest barrier people have to entering the HD world. I am going to talk briefly about the Betamax/VHS format battle for a minute. ( and to the people who say, that isn't the same thing, it's a different world, well, I have to say you are wrong. Most of the people I talk to about the HD formats is that they don't want to get stuck with the Beta, they want the one that will succeed. So the fact that the average consumer is directly comparing this format battle to the other is absolutely relevant.)

And for people who say, well if one format wins, it doesn't mean that the other has to go away. Those people need to wake up. Movie studios don't want to produce 2 separate formats of their movies, Stores don't want to carry 2 different formats of the movies, and consumers definitely aren't going to buy both formats of the movies. Only one format can survive. To those who still disagree, you must at least concede that it has been quite some time for Betamax movies to be widely available in stores.

So let me make my point before I really start to ramble too much. Most movie companies have released all their movies on VHS when the format was in its prime. And there was much rejoicing. Along came the DVD format, and all new movies were released on this format, and there was much rejoicing. Then an executive had an idea, "Hey, let’s release our older movies in this new format, people will eat it up, so they released all their movies on DVD, and there was much rejoicing. Then another brilliant executive said, hey, let's release them all again, but this time, include all those special features, and call it a 'collector’s edition', and so they released them again, and there was much rejoicing. Now along comes the HD world, and the movie studios just can't wait to do it all over again, but the problem is, the average consumer has not made the leap to HD yet. (as can be seen in this holiday season when HD sales for both formats combined were nowhere near that of good ol' SD DVD sales.)

Now, if you believe my previous statement about the barrier to entry is the choice in format, where in the consumer's mind, if they make the wrong choice, then everything they spent in the losing format needs to be respent in the format of the winner ( Hey, I was a member of the Beta family. About 6 years ago, I finally came to the point where I tossed out all my old Beta tapes. My player died for the last time, and I didn't want to sink the money into getting it fixed again, or buying a new one, if I could track it down. Why pay for a dead format.) Now, I am a regular consumer, and with this announcement of WB going Blu-ray exclusive, and I heard a figure somewhere that Blu-ray now has 70% of Hollywood's home movie output, this leads me to think that Blu-ray is going to be the format winner. Now I am sure there a lot of people, especially on this forum who are going to tell me that I am wrong, and HD-DVD is going to stay for a while.

Here is the slippery slope that will now occur. As this news becomes more and more well known in the average consumer world, the average consumer thinks that there is a format winner, and it is Blu-ray, so they go Blu. Many people are going to follow suit, and eventually, even if HD-DVD had a shot at winning (which I think is a dream at this point) that this new drive of consumer spending for the Blu-ray format will sink the HD-DVD camp.

So let's go back to WB. If I was in charge of a multi-billion dollar corporation, and we were sitting on a pile of movies that we could convert to HD format, and sell again to the consumer, we would want to do that as quickly as possible, and after spending the money to convert the movies to a HD consumer format, we would want to make sure it was the format that was going to stick around, so those movies could eventually make it to the $5 bin at your local wal-mart. So, here WB is, wanting to make the next round of money, but there are 2 formats. As a company standpoint, I want the format war to be over, so more consumers will enter the HD world. As a company, I have seen all my existing movies being consistently selling higher on one format, than on the other. As a company, that's the format I want to support. There is no amount of money that would sway me to produce my movies to the format that I believe is going to be lost to history.

What's better for my company, to make a $500 million deal now, but have low sales ( remember, comparatively speaking, HD formats are nothing compared to SD DVD sales), or help decide a format winner so I can sell my hundreds of movies again to millions of customers who have decided a format.

WB made the right choice, and I don't have any problem thinking they needed to be paid for it. I agree there may be advertising incentives, 'hey, we will bundle some of your movies in with our players', but those incentives I am sure do not amount to the large sums you think they have received.

Feel free to rebut my argument, but please keep it civil as I have.

PS/ I read about someone saying it was 'sad that the best Blu-ray player was a gaming console', to which I just have to replay, why is that sad? I think it is sad that the best hd-dvd player can't play any games of the caliber that the ps3 can, and the ps3 plays its format of hd just as good as the hd-dvd player plays its. Sad? come on, you are grasping here...

crambaza: I totally agree with you and some of your opinions are what I want to express too.

As a consumer, I really don't want 2 formats. And at present, even I already got a PS3, I haven't bought any HD movie yet. It is because I cannot predict the future. Moreover, I bought DVDs less too because I want to buy better quality HD movies. Therefore, Warner Bros. is going to the right track that they stick on one format. If there is clear future, consumers will be more comfortable on buying their movies.

As a resident in Hong Kong (small market), I just know the Blu-ray is much more popular than HD DVD. PS3 should have made a major contribution to it. Besides, Blu-ray and HD DVD are equally expensive. And Blu-ray players and HD DVD players are equally expensive here too. So people in US is so lucky that you can get a HD DVD player for only US$99! But I don't think it is the case of most other places. Therefore, I don't feel that either format wins will make a big difference on the pricing. I just think that the products that are more popular can be sold cheaper for lower costs. (if they are sold too expensive, I will shift to rent them)

For visual and audio quality, I don't think there is any difference between Blu-ray and HD DVD. But I admire the special features of HD DVD. However, Blu-ray 1.2 and 2.0 can also do these things. So I don't think we will get inferior media in the future, though not at this moment.

No matter which side wins, if I bought most items of the loser side, I should be very unhappy or angry. If Warner chose HD DVD, I think much more people would be angry. So in the first day when there are 2 formats invented, it is clear that it will lead to not so happy ending. But the earlier the war ends, the earlier the people can enter into the HD world.

Last words, don't know how many of you played the game Risk before. When a player starts to lose territories, it is very likely that he/she will lose the game. It is a cruel world.

This may be a war that neither is going to win anytime soon. To the normal Joe, an upconverted SD DVD is good enough. Why buy hi def versions for so much more? In Canada, the HD-DVD version
of the Matrix trilogy is about $80. On Boxing Day, I could have bought all 3 in SD DVD for $12 total ($4 a movie). There are very few movies that are worth $30 for the hi def version. They need to release more music/concerts in hi def.

The best case scenerio at this point is to be able to make hi def discs that can be played on either machines or both versions are stored on the same disc. The movies studios, stores, rental shops, etc. only have to stock on disc for both machines. And consumers can pick either machine and still be able to play the disc.

It seems so simple...why didn't Apple think of it, then have Microsoft copy it, and then have China mass produce pirated versions of it...

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[Post edited by Focuz on Jan 9, 2008]

Indeed the HD format war is NOT helping the industry, but frankly WHY should we CARE, certanly all what has happened with Warner and Paramount/Dreamworks shows us that they certanly have very little concern for our best interest, also millions of customers aren't deciding the winning format, since only 3.5% of consumers have bought either HD DVD or Blu-Ray players and movies, therefore the fact is that 70% of the movie industry is forcing Blu-Ray on us, and surely more than 96.5% of consumers didn't chose it (including those early HD DVD adopters).

Currently a HD DVD / Blu-Ray movie is priced almost twice than a SD DVD special edition... with the exception of USA consumers, everybody else around the world must pay full price for a HD DVD or Blu-Ray movie, that means US$30-45 / $25-35 euro, no BOGO, no get 5 free movies, nothing. Don't forget that in the past most consumers have avoided double dipping for a ultimate extreme collectors special re-release of a movie they already own, now even more if that movie is now availible on HD DVD or Blu-Ray... simple as that.

Nobody is disputing that both HD DVD and Blu-Ray offer an improvement in audiovisual quality compared to SD DVD, but the fact is that 96.5% of consumers don't think that is enough to justify buying the same movies again on HD DVD / Blu-Ray, at even higher prices than we did (and still do) for them in SD DVD, nor spending thousands of $$$'s to upgrade all their equipment so they can watch HD DVD / Blu-Ray movies, there should be more than that, specially when you can achieve similar results (not equal) viewing current SD DVD titles throw upscaling DVD players.

We should be objective and keep in mind that if we don't something about it, all as consumers at the end will suffer and lose out. If HD DVD really does losses the high def market then Blu-Ray has no incentive to seriously cut prices for their BD players and movies, even adoping a more consumer friendly policy by dropping intrusive DRM, even to finalise the specs properly that none of their current BD players has.

Don't allow the recent news to blind you from the fact, that for 10 years we have been discontent with the overpricing on SD DVD movies, yet no significant price reduction has ocurred for new releases, they cost us the same now that they did 10 years ago. Regional coding sole purpose is so movie studios can fix prices and restrict consumers to releases, it has been a nuisance for 10 years on SD DVD, and will continue to be so on Blu-Ray.

If indeed DRM on SD DVD such as CSS, ARccOS, RipGuard, Macrovision, etc. have been an nuisance, they never presented a problem for those how just were interested in viewing movies and were never limited to do so. But with the new generation of HD DVD and Blu-Ray players, DRM such as AACS, BD+ even HDCP HDMI has been causing problems to many honest customers, and cripples their freedom to use and view movies as they wish to.

In previous years SD DVD sales were much higher because of the release of blockbuster classic 80s and 90s titles, even for the first time ever, complete TV shows, but know that pretty much everybody owns on SD DVD those movies and TV shows they wished for, there are less options to choose from, since only a few of the new releases are worth buying. SD DVD has the biggest titles catalogue ever availible in video, even suppasing old VHS, surely not something to ignore easily.

The movie studios know this, that's why they just can't wait to release their new and older movies all over again in this new format, and if people don't buy them, then they will force you to do so, and worse of all under their terms. No doubt the movie industry will say that SD DVD sales are down because people were waiting for a resolution in the HD media war, but the fact is that people are tried of overpricing and double dipping, and it hasn't help the lack of appealing new titles worth purchasing.

I believe that the best option is if indeed the winner of the HD format war is Blu-Ray, it should work simultaneously with SD DVD for the next 10+ years, rather than trying to debunk SD DVD as the dominant vehicle for consumer video. But we should make it clear that we are all tired of paying DRM overpriced movies, and in order to keep buying from them, we need a significant reduction in price and a more consumer friendly attitude, specially if they want us to support HD DVD or Blu-Ray in the following years.

Because the bottom line is that we really don't need HD DVD nor Blu-Ray, specially under such conditions, since billions around the world have at least one SD DVD player at home, with their own SD DVD movies and TV series collection, which could go from hundreds to thousands of titles, which you can view freely, even back them up/transfer them to mobile players if you wish, much quicker and easier than HD DVD / Blu-Ray movies.

Reducing current retail prices by half and allow consumers to choose either a special SD DVD edition at $10-15 SRP or an HD DVD / Blu-Ray edition at $20-25 SRP, which will appeal consumers to buy more movies than they currently do (even double dipping for already own titles) and undeniably stores could offer discount prices to promote higher sales... otherwise it's you as consumers that will suffer and lose out.

It's up to you to determine if you let the movie studios choose for you, and impose their format and conditions like they have been doing so far, or if you acknowledge that you as consumers have really the power to change things in your favour... just look how far we got with the record industry dopping DRM on music downloads. Forget about the HD DVD / Blu-Ray rivalry, and focus on what is really important, which is to veil for your mutual interests as consumers, regardless if your shirt's colour is red or blue.

If warner did not make a payment then I decided they are in some ways smart. They could go back to HD-DVD also at anytime. being locked in sucks.

I do not think vod will ever give you the quality of HD-DVD or Blu-Ray ever will.

I have like 400 movies/tv box sets (each box set counts as 1). If I watched 1 a day it would be a year before a see a dublicate. I long decided I am only going to rebuy my absolute favorites on high def DVD. Until prices drop more probably buy very few new movies on the new format. I want my collection to basicly shrink and not get bigger since I can not watch half the stuff I got now.

I dont care. I am convinced that Sony either paid off Warner or something else. I dont care the the "format war isnt good for consumers" because niether is bluray. Personally I will hold out on buying HD movies on disk until Digital distribution takes off. I can already get most all of the movies I want from sites like direct2drive.com and movielink.com. They will get my business, not the stores, not Bluray.

--Stringer wouldn't directly comment on whether the Blu-ray consortium paid money to Warner to put its movies exclusively on Blu-ray. Stringer said Warner saw the value of the format but dodged discussing financial terms. "I think you are going to have to take that announcement at face value," he said.

from ps3scene.com

in other words they did pay them