Re: 1080i vs 1080p: A Noticeable Difference

Quote:
If done incorrectly, YOU WILL SEE THE DIFFERENCE.

Ok, Hendrix... you've given me a lot of "If's" scenario. I don't mean to sound skeptical, but that's where I still stand on you numbers where the difference between the two ARE SO SCANT to the naked eye, shown at 5-8 feet of distance, given a 52-inch screen... that the AVERAGE CONSUMER (like me) would not cough up the extra $$$... for such a feature.

But to humor your logic behind the 1080i vs 1080p rez, what brand and model HDTV would you give, as an example... supporting your stated theory. In addition, how much is that model currently selling NOW. Is it worth buying for that price?

I didn't even bother using my 1080P setting in my projo. The 1080i is a lot clearner, and less buzzy that the 1080p picture. The projo does the scaling for me. 1080p is good for LCD and Plasma actually the can process it. Pioneer, some Toshiba's, some Sharp's, and if you get he high, high end LG's(Toshiba platforms)

I personally think THIS WHOLE 1080i VS 1080p issue IS BULL CRAP! It's a matter of taste that NO SALESPERSON can universally sell to every customer, entering a showroom.

What really counts are color accuracy, refresh rates, saturation, even sharpness of the picture.

Take away the cosmetic features of a HDTV set, set the volume to mute, and cover the brand name and price of the HDTV, THEN SHOW A SERIES OF HDTV's (of the same size, with 1080i & 1080p mixed in the room, showing the same hidef loop) TO A CUSTOMER standing at a reasonable distance (that a normal person would watch a HDTV)... and it's GUARANTEED THE RESULTS WILL BE MIXED.... for EACH & EVERY CUSTOMER.

It's a matter of taste. NOT NUMBERS. The SALES PITCH of 1080p superiority to consumers is HYPE. Don't let the "1080p" symbol judge your preference, let your eyes -staring at the HDTV screen- do the talking.

[Post edited by xplaytendo on Jan 21, 2008]

Well I've told this store here before but I'll tell it again. When I returned my Sharp Aquos 52" LCD I was shopping for a replacement flat screen. Obviously I didn't go to Bestbuy and such because they tell you anything they can think of. I went to an electronics store that is pretty well known here in Toronto and spoke to my usual guy. I told him what I was looking for and he showed me the Pioneer 50" 5080HD Plasma which is 1080i. He proceeded to tell me that he was at some convention or something of the sort and was sitting at a demonstration with other "industry professionals". On stage they had 5 screens with all the names hidden and anything else that would give the tv's away. They watched some video demos and when it was done they guy doing the demo asked everyone which tv they thought looked the best. Everyone said the one in the middle. He then revealed all the tv's and it turns out the one in the middle was the only 1080i tv out of the 5 that were on stage. It was the Pioneer 5080HD. The other 4 were all 1080P (2 LCD's and 2 Plasmas).

Don't believe into the whole 1080P thing too much unless you're watching on a projector with a 100" big screen.

By the way I saw the Pioneer on sale at Futureshop.ca for $2475.00 the last week of December. Currently it's $3299. Also it has a much better picture than my old Sharp Aquos and that tv was not bad either.

Falcon... the Pioneer KURO Plasmas [all models, both 720p and 1080p] include superior processing chips that pass the lab tests and correctly deinterlace film-based signals... etc.

xplaytendo... again, you need to realize that I'm referring to the overall image quality, and not just your understanding of "1080 resolution" or "sharpness" etc.

To see what I'm getting at, please try an experiment (anyone here on the message board).

Most of us are watching thru the player's HDMI output, going to the TV display's HDMI input, regardless of whether we have our players outputting 1080i, 1080p, 720p signals.

First... set your player to output 1080i, but INSTEAD OF HDMI, now send the signal using a COMPONENT output, to your TV display's Component input [will need a Component cable for this]. For HD-DVD players, you will also have to "tell" your player to now send the signal from the component output, since it's currently using HDMI probably.

Now... after you've done the settings, put on an HD-DVD disc that you are familiar with (favorite scenes etc), and select something that doesn't have a lot of moving images. A good choice is the HD-DVD movie BREACH (slow moving scenes) or something similar.

Now... watching the movie, with 1080i from your player's component output (to your TV's compoent input), IF YOUR TV DOESN'T HAVE AN EXCELLENT PROCESSING CHIP you will "see" artifacts, jaggies, etc along the edges of people and objects.

WHY? Because practically every HDTV yet made does NOT deinterlace 1080i film-based signals thru the Component input (softer image). Some will do it right thru the HDMI input, and SOME DON'T DO IT PROPERLY AT ALL THRU ANY INPUT [hello, Sony?].

I've read many reviews that state this. And since some of you (like xplaytendo) don't seem to understand what I mean, I'm suggesting this test that anyone can do (if you have an HD-DVD player). Or, you can use Blu-ray too, if your player has a Component output (as my PS3 doesn't).

You could do the experiment with standard DVD too (upconverted to 1080i required), but since it has less resolution, the jaggies/artifacts are much more noticeable when using and HD-DVD or Blu-ray movie.

Again, you WILL SEE some artifacts and jaggies for 1080i signals thru your TV's Component input. But if you have a TV with superior processing (like my Pioneer KURO plasma), you won't see any visual signal-processing "noise" with 1080i signals sent thru HDMI. But not all TVs deinterlace 1080i correctly even thru HDMI (hello, Sony?) - except for quality models released from Pioneer, Toshiba, Sharp, JVC, NEC, and sometimes others.

Just check online reviews to confirm, beyond my test suggestion above -

Cnet.com
soundandvisionmag.com
hometheatermag.com
hdguru.com
...etc.

-LH (The Loverboy)

I completely understand what you're saying, Hendrix. I also understand that what you're saying ARE ALL ACADEMICS.

Place the 1080i 'issue' under a microscope... SURE there will be a difference, compared to a 1080p. But average consumers don't care about slight 'jaggies' when they're sitting 5-feet away from their 52-inch HDTV, while watching Matrix Trilogy. In fact, THEY WON'T EVEN discern such 'jaggies', as much as they would IMMEDIATELY NOTICE the proper color calibration/saturation, sharpness, & refresh rate of the picture.

Your THEORY does not apply to the average Jane & Joe... only the hardware fanatics. Unfortunately, THE MAJORITY of the masses is populated by AVERAGE JANE & JOE's. Average consumers don't look for 'jaggies' on a frame-by-frame basis.

Also, you still haven't given me an example OF A HDTV model, that MAY GIVE your support... of a 1080p set done right.

Yes, you mentioned the KURO. A DAMN NICE HDTV, Hendrix. I actually envy you for having that. Around 2100 now at Amazon.com, but my primary choice (should I have an excuse to get it NOW), is the Samsung LN-T5271F. It's like DIRECTLY looking at A REAL PERSON OR EVENT, separated by a glass window.

xplaytendo said -

Quote:
"But average consumers don't care about slight 'jaggies' when they're sitting 5-feet away from their 52-inch HDTV, while watching Matrix Trilogy."

Oh please! At 5-feet the artifacts/jaggies would definitely be noticeable on a large-screen display, if the 1080i was NOT properly deinterlaced by the TV.

Again, you're trying to take this into another area [what the average John/Jane Doe would notice, etc], which is irrelevant. Anyone who cares about quality HD, and watches 1080i signals, will notice the difference (compared to 720p or 1080p] if the HDTV doesn't accurately deinterlace the signal.

As for my recommendation of an excellent 1080p display with quality processing/deinterlacing (of all signals, especially 1080i), contast, etc I recommend:

PLASMA - Pioneer (best), Panasonic (very good)

LCD - Sharp* (best), Toshiba, JVC, Samsung, Sony, Mitsubishi, NEC, Panasonic (very good) - although not all models accurately deinterlace 1080i film-based signals

*apart from problematic "banding" issues reported on some models (occasionally).

-LH (The Loverboy)

[Post edited by Love Hendrix! on Jan 21, 2008]

Quote:
Again, you're trying to take this into another area [what the average John/Jane Doe would notice, etc], which is irrelevant. Anyone who cares about quality HD, and watches 1080i signals, will notice the difference (compared to 720p or 1080p] if the HDTV doesn't accurately deinterlace the signal.

Your ASSUMPTION that someone REALLY CARES about 1080i over 1080p is A MATTER OF OPINION. It's a MATTER OF TASTE to each and every individual. For you to declare that those who care about 'quality HD' & notice the 1080i/1080p difference is PURE ACADEMICS {"so I see a difference, but is it better?"}. It's CERTAINLY NOT WORTH THE OVERHYPED PRICE!

What you've given me are theories regarding the 1080p hype.

For the record, and I'm not stating that this is what you're indicating: 1080p HDTV DOES NOT MEAN BETTER HD EXPERIENCE. That's PURE HYPE delivered by your local salesperson, everytime you go to your electronic store.

[Post edited by xplaytendo on Jan 21, 2008]

Well xplaytendo... I tried my best here to provide pertinent info, and not "hype".

I don't know about you, but I ALWAYS prefer my movies on disc to have accurate deinterlacing (regardless of resolution, whether 480p, 720p, 1080p, just as long as it's accurately deinterlaced in progressive form, either by the player or TV)... but I don't know about you.

After reading again what you wrote above, perhaps you just don't care if your HDTV has accurate 1080i deinterlacing?

-LH (The Loverboy)

[Post edited by Love Hendrix! on Jan 21, 2008]

Oh I care about my hdtv, I just to care about what you're preaching about 1080p.

Clearly our views are different, that neither one will give.

I respect your opinion, as I have done so in your previous threads. I'll continue to read your rants, as they are both informative.... and interesting.

Hey thanks for 'humoring' a skeptic.