HD DVD gain in market share after huge drop

Just adding the following bit of news 01-Feb-2008:

Despite recent rumours by sony fanboys that circuit city is dumping HD DVD & are having a clearance sale on HD DVD players. I have found ONLY ONE positive article clarifying Circuit City's position: http://www.dealerscope.com/story/story.bsp?sid=90171&var=story

As the above article wont be making headlines i decided to post it.

lets emphasize on the last bit in the article:
"Circuit City also told the site that sales, following the price cuts, have been strong, and that the chain plans to remain “platform agnostic.” "



And lets not forget that the above results DO NOT include online sales from Amazon, where the HD DVD Player is ranked number 1 & number 2 on Amazon.com DVD players Sales Rank & has been since December 2007.
It's currently Number 1 on Amazon.co.uk and Play.com.

im sure the results after week 4 will be even larger gains for HD DVD in hardware and in software.

And another thing I see is a lot of constant negative articles regarding HD DVD (type in HD DVD in google and then the news options to see for yourself), the same old stories appearing as 1 hour ago news from India, Ireland, to USA and despite that, figures released and Not released (online retailers etc) clearly show support for HD DVD despite all this negative bashing and 2 studio support. Nobody is giving HD DVD a fair chance to compete. If Sony does win this war it will be on a negative publicity campaign against HD DVD. If you start to repeat something a million times people will start to believe it.

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[Post edited by mak247 on Feb 1, 2008]

thats quite an amazing feat. considering HD DVD only has something like 25% of the major studios supporting them. Perhaps there is something to this HD DVD technology after all?

How do 3D Glasses tie into this story? Either way that's awesome!

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How do 3D Glasses tie into this story?

A symbol of both formats (red and blue)

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[Post edited by Henning on Jan 29, 2008]

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And lets not forget that the above results DO NOT include online sales from Amazon

I'm afraid you are mistaken or your information might be out of date: In 2007, NPD added amazon.com to its list of retailers (and lost Toys R Us).

Link: gamedaily

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[Post edited by Grubert on Jan 29, 2008]

It was made clear on January 24th that "NPD's numbers do not include online sales from the likes of Amazon"

You may refer to gaming console data.

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A symbol of both formats (red and blue)

How did I not get that?

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It was made clear on January 24th that "NPD's numbers do not include online sales from the likes of Amazon"

That came from betanews' Nate Mook, right? Well I'll just say that you might want to verify it with a second source.

Yes, it was from BetaNews.

The reason I find it very creditable is that the source for the article is Stephen Baker, vice president of NPD.
Full Article

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By Nate Mook, BetaNews

That's the article source, as the author's name and company is listed at the top of the page. If it is implied that the NPD numbers don't reflect industry market share, then the numbers are useless, their reputation is down the drain, and all the clients that spend the big bucks for timely NPD figures should be going elsewhere or risk loss of revenue themselves due to using these faulty figures in helping to formulate their marketing strategies.

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[Post edited by Skyhawk on Jan 29, 2008]

fantastic news...keep buying those hd dvd folks..
my collection is now 34 with 2 on pre order

This is indeed great news.

BD fanboys need to realize the smoke from the Warner news is clearing. Consumers are starting to go back to what they're always looking for - a great buy for their money. When you take into account the price of the 3rd gen HD player and the over 800 world wide titles available, its easy to see how this is an amazing deal.

HD DVD has a strong worldwide lineup for February with block busters like Beowulf, Elizabeth-Golden Age, Rescue Dawn, American Gangster, SAW (import), Resident Evil - Extinction (import), ect., etc..

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HD DVD has a strong worldwide lineup for February with block busters like Beowulf, Elizabeth-Golden Age, Rescue Dawn, American Gangster, SAW (import), Resident Evil - Extinction (import), ect., etc..

quite right cmpltvertigo,

I just wanted to add extra titles to the above mentioned like Underworld, Fantastic four 1 & 2, BEE Movie, Stardust, I am legend. And by the end of the year there will be more exclusive titles like Indy 4, Wanted, Cloverfield, Hellboy 2 etc etc.

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BD fanboys need to realize the smoke from the Warner news is clearing. Consumers are starting to go back to what they're always looking for - a great buy for their money.

That's the feeling I'm starting to get. The initial shock is over. If HD DVD sales attain a level of anywhere near what they were before the Warner withdrawal after their HD DVD products are no longer available this spring, then they need to take a good hard look at their decision. I don't really expect them to change but 'ya never know. This is far from being over.

Obviously this is great news for the consumer since we all want to have options and competition is ALWAYS good for the consumer. I imagine this will only get better as HD DVD is about to start their marketing campaign.

I get the feeling that no matter how good (or bad) the HD DVD Superbowl commercial is the bluray extremists will say it was garbage and it will have no effect on the format war. Ya

That is great news indeed. I own an HDDVD player and a PS3. I like them both.

I really hope both formats survive this war and come to a stalemate......I have a lot of movies on both and enjoy the picture and sound on both formats.

If.......I was to lean in any direction it would be HDDVD.

One thing everyone needs to understand is this: The average consumer which consists of approx. (75% or more) of the population are the ones who need to be convinced on which format they need and would want. And they tend not to be rich or well off. So HDDVD is doing very well by lowering the prices on their players......the average person CAN afford $100-$250. NOT $400-$600.

Falcon said,

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I get the feeling that no matter how good (or bad) the HD DVD Superbowl commercial is the bluray extremists will say it was garbage and it will have no effect on the format war.

just what i thought, if you check on the latest news update on HD DVD, you will only find ONE article (DVDTOWN.COM) that is reporting the following "HD DVD gain in market share after huge drop HD DVD gain in market ..."

i'm starting to wonder if Sony is paying people to write constant negative articles on HD DVD.

Say what??

Henning,

This posting is exactly how you show your bias.

When Blu-ray had a crushing victory you post it hidden, after an HD DVD posting like this:

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High-end HD DVD model only $239.23 and huge Blu-ray growth

But when HD DVD has a sales figure that you want to present as good you give it it's own posting.

I had always heard that DVDTown was bias, but after reading these forums and seeing your posting style I see how you definitely try to shade things red.

If you're going to pretend this site is neutral then be neutral, otherwise stop pretending and just fess up. You're just making HD DVD look bad for us by being bias but pretending your not.

My two cents.

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I had always heard that DVDTown was bias, but after reading these forums and seeing your posting style I see how you definitely try to shade things red.

If you're going to pretend this site is neutral then be neutral, otherwise stop pretending and just fess up. You're just making HD DVD look bad for us by being bias but pretending your not.

My two cents.

I'll pay you back those two cents, for the garbage you just posted.

Mine is FREE.

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[Post edited by xplaytendo on Jan 29, 2008]

HD DVD is a great format. But with 5 of 7 studios exclusively behind Bluray-eventually good business will cause both Universal and Paramount to at least release bluray titles as well. Though they are in a contract now-once it expires it would be too large of a market to not tap into. Only large payouts from Toshiba would cause Paramount and Universal to stay exclusive-but that seems unlikely. SO buy HDDVD-but realize a day IS coming when all HD will be available only on Blu ray, while only a small fraction if any will be available on HDDVD. SO by all means keep buying it up HD DVD fans. Us bluray fans have a bright HD future knowing the whole catalog will be ours without having to buy two different players like you guys will have to. SO you can pay now or later. You can be patient like the blu fans knowing the HD exclusive titles will eventually come out on blu-but the blu will never turn red. Cheers to common sense

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[Post edited by michial on Jan 29, 2008]

http://www.cio-today.com/news/Toshiba-Price-Cuts-May-Not-Stop-Blu-Ray/story.xhtml?story_id=13000G0BBW9Q

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Gartner believes that Toshiba's price-cutting may prolong HD DVD's life a little, but the limited line-up of film titles will inflict fatal damage on the format. Gartner expects that, by the end of 2008, Blu-ray will be the winning format in the consumer market, and the war will be over.

michial you said that paramount and universal will drop their exclusives when their contract is over, but both have agreements in their contract that they can lose their exclusives if warner goes blu exclusive. so if they wanted to drop their exclusives they could have already. this information has already been presented and both studios said they are not changing.

movie studio exclusives are a big help in terms of sales, but the simple fact is the average consumer is uninformed as to what studios are exclusive to what format and a good portion of the ones that do know have no ideo what studio is producing what movie. you are overestimating the average consumers desire to look up information on a product before they buy it. most people go into a store and buy something they can afford because its cooler then the one they have... plain and simple. they don't know or care about studio support.

I feel stuck. I got into the big box stores, and everything is BR... HD-DVD is lumped onto an end cap in the back corner (no where near the front of the HD section)... We're down to (2) movie studios..

Warner actually made sure I wouldn't buy anymore of their HD-DVDs, by jumping...

How in the world will this come back around???

I remember when MTV launched, and they didn't have any videos - so the UK kicked some in - and their artists became the next largest names in music.... Maybe it's time for some Indie studios to start cranking out some HD-DVD flicks that people want to see. Maybe even make them really really cheap - like $9.95.

Well... They're having a clearence sale. What else are the sales supposed to do?

"Us bluray fans have a bright HD future knowing the whole catalog will be ours without having to buy two different players like you guys will have to."

Well, at least I know we BOTH will buying Profile 2.0 machines, since anything you already have won't be 2.0 (without serious emulation or work-arounds).

The bottom line is if Warner Bros went HD DVD exclusive (as was rumoured to happen without being paid $500 million) HD DVD would be in the same position bluray is in now. The other studios like New Line would have gone HD DVD exclusive also. Basically everything that happened in blurays favour would have happened in HD DVD's favour if Warner went HD DVD exclusive.

Reality is they went bluray exclusive and we have to deal with it. It doesn't mean HD DVD is dead though. Studios are not going to ignore the HD DVD player price drops and player sales but at the end of the day the movies have to sell also. If they see the movie sales they will jump in. Let's not forget HD DVD has enjoyed better attach rates (player to movie sales) for the better part of this format war.

Falcon said -

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"Basically everything that happened in blurays favour would have happened in HD DVD's favour if Warner went HD DVD exclusive."

Nice try Falcon, but your scenario above (first paragraph) is incorrect...

-FORMAT SUPPORT BREAKDOWN-

HD-DVD
-Universal
-Paramount/Dreamsworks
-The Weinstein Company/First Look/Genius

Blu-ray
-Fox
-Sony
-Lionsgate
-MGM/UA
-Disney/Pixar/Miramax
-Warner Brothers/New Line/HBO
-Starz Home Entertainment
-Sony Music
-Universal Music
-Warner/Reprise Music

SO... in your scenario, even if Warner/NewL/HBO had decided to go HD-DVD "exclusive", the support is still tilted to Blu-ray - however, it would now be pretty equal between the two formats (but it certainly wasn't equal even before Warner's announcement).

Also, remember that with Paramount/Dreamworks, their exclusive HD-DVD support is technically only for a limited time (early next year). So, the only real (and previous) exclusive HD-DVD support was by Universal, compared to Sony, Fox, Disney/Pixar, Lionsgate, and MGM/UA who were ALREADY on record as supporting Blu-ray exclusively.

-LH (The Loverboy)
~ HI-DEF DUAL FORMAT SUPPORTER ~

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[Post edited by Love Hendrix! on Jan 30, 2008]

Henning .. dont listen to the monkeys. you do a great job.

-Dual format owner.

"Well, at least I know we BOTH will buying Profile 2.0 machines, since anything you already have won't be 2.0 (without serious emulation or work-arounds). "

Actually I wont. I have a ps3 that is 2.0 capable. Either way, early adopters know things evolve, so for bluray owners at least they wont have to rebuy movies in the future because their format is dead and its too hard to find a non marked up player on ebay. PLUS all bluray players WILL STILL PLAY 2.0 movies, just not the PIP, BDi functionality in the special features. So while some will upgrade right away it isnt necessary, and most of the time I am interested in the movie itself. Id hate to be in the HDDVD camp though-ouch

"michial you said that paramount and universal will drop their exclusives when their contract is over, but both have agreements in their contract that they can lose their exclusives if warner goes blu exclusive. so if they wanted to drop their exclusives they could have already. this information has already been presented and both studios said they are not changing.

movie studio exclusives are a big help in terms of sales, but the simple fact is the average consumer is uninformed as to what studios are exclusive to what format and a good portion of the ones that do know have no ideo what studio is producing what movie. you are overestimating the average consumers desire to look up information on a product before they buy it. most people go into a store and buy something they can afford because its cooler then the one they have... plain and simple. they don't know or care about studio support. "

I think you are underestimating the deceptiveness of the studio talking heads on the one hand and the intelligence of the consumer on the other hand. The studio heads of course will say they are still hddvd. Remember when Warner said the same thing in Dec of 07 a few weeks before it bailed. They have to. But dont think that Uni and Para have warm fuzzies and personal affinities for hddvd-no they though it would win and make MONEY, but its not-so until they can implement their impending exit strategy(which they wont announce until the right time) they will continue to say they are behind it. But believe me all businesses have boards and shareholders who care only about sound FUTURE investments and making money. They will leave Toshibas fantasy attempts at trying to comeback sometime in the future for the bluray camp which has the majority of studio, manufacturer, and consumer support-even with drastic fire sale prices on hddvd hardware.
Point two-you dont think the average consumer walking into Bestbuy, Target, Blockbuster, etc and seeing only blu or at least two to three times the amount of movies and players will know soemthing is up. Hddvd has some good movies but the major blockbusters(with the exception of a few) are only out or only coming to blu PLUS blue has the majority of FAMILY movies-DISNEY is huge. Dont think think these factors wont imply to the consumer which format has won. It doesnt matter how cheap the hardware is-you need to play something on it to make it worth while. Its only a matter of time-THE FUTURE IS BLU.

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[Post edited by michial on Jan 30, 2008]

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The studio heads of course will say they are still hddvd. Remember when Warner said the same thing in Dec of 07 a few weeks before it bailed. They have to.

It has been confirmed already that Warner Bros was going to go HD DVD exclusive and actually turned down Sony twice before accepting the final $500 million offer.

Falcon...

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"it has now been confirmed"

- ?

Uh, no it hasn't. There's no hard proof yet of a "$500 million payout", and the other claim above is based on John Pucio revealing some 'hearsay' comments from an insider's friend - possible/probable, but NOT definite, and especially NOT "confirmed".

Be careful with these claims.

-LH (The Loverboy)

"It has been confirmed already that Warner Bros was going to go HD DVD exclusive and actually turned down Sony twice before accepting the final $500 million offer. "

No proof of this, but granting you the assumption it did-who cares-its a moot point to how business works. Profit and being candid go hand in hand. Uni and Para mount wont announce their exit the same day they decide. No they have stages and will not cut their nose off to spite their face. They will try to empty their warehouses first. If they thought it was the winning format and popular choice they wouldnt slash prices-supply and demand 101. They are not naive to think a commercial on Sunday and obvious desparate clearance pricing will cause the other studios to go back to bluray. Its smart business. Once they have made as much as they can on this last gasp-attempt, while blu continues to trounce in 2 to 1 or more sales in hardware and software, and as the majority of new releases are mainly blu-they will go where the MONEY is. In the end they must profit-not be loyal to Toshiba becuase they believe in a format or are stubborn. Business 101 plain and simple.

Couldn't have said it better michial! - Excellent post.

-LH (The Loverboy)
~ HI-DEF DUAL SUPPORT SUPPORTER ~

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According to a trusted source that was close to the negotiations, Warner and FOX were working on a deal to go Exclusive to HD DVD as recent as last week. Our source tells us that Warner was only willing to go to HD DVD if FOX would go with them. Their thinking was if they just went to HD DVD by themselves, it would not end the format war. Early this week FOX was paid an undisclosed amount to remain exclusive to Blu-ray. With the FOX deal falling through, Warner had no choice but to accept the BDA’s $500 Million offer to go Blu-ray exclusive.

http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/2008/01/04/warner-swayed-by-500-million-from-the-bda/

Hendrix, you're right but when you have multiple sources saying the same thing...well as the saying goes...Where there's smoke there's fire.

Granted Disney denied ever taking money or incentives as did Fox and I believe Paramount never really admitted to accepting anything either. They try to be as diplomatic as possible I guess.

Michial, do you honestly believe the HD DVD camp would spend 2.7 million on a 30 second commercial to clear inventory? Who's kidding who.

Also considering the CEO of Universal pictures is one of the top guys in the HD DVD camp he would know first hand if HD DVD was throwing in the towel. Why would he bother to say he is staying HD DVD exclusive and announce upcoming HD DVD releases if HD DVD was actually folding? Wouldn't they be working something out with the bluray camp? Guys stay focused!

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[Post edited by Falcon01 on Jan 30, 2008]

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According to a trusted source that was close to the negotiations, Warner and FOX were working on a deal to go Exclusive to HD DVD as recent as last week. Our source tells us that Warner was only willing to go to HD DVD if FOX would go with them. Their thinking was if they just went to HD DVD by themselves, it would not end the format war. Early this week FOX was paid an undisclosed amount to remain exclusive to Blu-ray. With the FOX deal falling through, Warner had no choice but to accept the BDA’s $500 Million offer to go Blu-ray exclusive.

All of that doesnt really matter anymore. We are here now. Its better for the whole HD community and movement to just move on. Just think how great it will be when Toshiba finally gives in to reality. There will be a massive influx of monies from manufacturers, studios, retailers etc. We will have more movies and players, lower prices, Speilberg and Jackson will put out their hot titles. It will be great. But now we get to watch the inevitable drag on and on as hardline red party activists bring up the past injustices and claim such and such is better. It reminds me of what happens when you cut of a lizards tail-even after its tail is severed and dead it still wiggles around. Thats whats gong on here. Let them wiggle-their nerve will eventually wear off as reality sets in. I would say the same thing to the bluray camp if they were in the same position as hddvd is now.

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I would say the same thing to the bluray camp if they were in the same position as hddvd is now.

Ya. I'm sure you would.

I would feel the same towards the blu camp if they were in the shoes of hddvd now . I have no motivation to lie. Having a different opinion on the hd situation than me is fine but implying Iam lying is not. Lets move on.

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Michial, do you honestly believe the HD DVD camp would spend 2.7 million on a 30 second commercial to clear inventory? Who's kidding who.

Absolutely I do believe it. And unfortunately the joke is on the hddvd late adopter

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[Post edited by michial on Jan 30, 2008]

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Michial, do you honestly believe the HD DVD camp would spend 2.7 million on a 30 second commercial to clear inventory?

If Toshiba's commercial mentions or portrays HD DVD as "inexpensive players that will upconvert standard DVDs to near HD quality", I'll know for sure that Toshiba has thrown in the towel.

There's no real reason to argue who is going to win. Unless HD-DVD pulls a rabbit out of a hat I think we all know it doesn't look good for the Red team in the long run. All of us who read these boards are movie/ HD/ gaming nerds just trying to find out the lastest scoop.
When BLU has a sub $200 2.0 compliant player out, I think almost any HD-DVD fan or fanboy would be willing to make the swith.

I will say I'm insterested to see if the PS3 becomes available for $299. At that point the other major companies (Samsung, Sharp and even Sony themselves) would have no reason to make stand alone BLU players. The can't compete with a mid range gaming system but that includes BLU HD as well.

Lets be real. We're just talking about movies here. Not Curing Cancer or Saving Darfur!

Damn it is fun reading all this craprature that people do post.

By the way for all the people that hate the trolls. Don't worry they either get paid, (http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/magazine/16-02/ps_payperpost) yes it does happen or they are just people that are way to into something and have nothing better to do. The spend so much time looking for the crap they post that they probably don't get to enjoy any movies!

I thought this was kinda funny as well:
http://www.youtube.com/biblyboy
Honestly you're going to let that little freak bother you?

I have an HD-DVD player. I believe HD-DVD is better than BR (now and in the past). BR is still catching up the feature set..

BUT - I've stopped buying HD-DVD movies.

When there's a Profile 2.0 BR player under $150, I'm in. Until then - I'm back to HD On-Demand renting. And yeah, Comcast isn't as sharp and doesn't sound as great - it's still only $5.95 to watch a HD movie.

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[Post edited by shawnwc on Jan 30, 2008]

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When there's a Profile 2.0 BR player under $150, I'm in. Until then - I'm back to HD On-Demand renting. And yeah, Comcast isn't as sharp and doesn't sound as great - it's still only $5.95 to watch a HD movie.

Streaming videos and digital downloads (including hidef) will just get better & cheaper by 2009. Cable & Satellite companies WILL NOT be the only one providing this service, anymore.

Why do all you blu fanboys talk about the format was as if it is already over?

Yes it doesn't look good for HD DVD at the moment, but it ain't over 'till the fat lady sings.

You can talk about it as if its over when/if Toshiba release a statement saying they give up.

Looks like a lot of unbiased AV blogs and columnists from all over the world are all uniquely wrong about assuming the format war is over. I dont think it has anything to do with being a blu fanboy as the previous writer assumes. It is purely critical thinking and common deduction. Please unstop your ears mate-the fat lady has been singing for a few weeks. Keep listening you will eventually have hears to hear. Until then enjoy your denial.

shawnmc said -

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"And yeah, Comcast isn't as sharp and doesn't sound as great - it's still only $5.95 to watch a HD movie."

Yeah..."only" $5.95. That's a great price?

For superior A/V quality and value, you should get either a Netflix or Blockbuster online membership (about $18 a month for 3 discs out at a time), as you will receive a better deal (value) in watching multiple movies each month (compared to $5.95 a pop, per Comcast PPV), and be able to see new releases before Comcast gets them, and benefit from the superior hi-def quality from HD-DVD and Blu-ray. No brainer.

-LH (The Loverboy)
~ HI-DEF DUAL FORMAT SUPPORTER ~