Sony 52 XBR4 or Panny TH-58PZ700U?

I was sold on the sony but i have read a lot of things that the xbr4 has very bad ghosting and clouding issues. These are the 2 tvs i have narrowed down to but i need some help. the price is the same on the 2 and it doesnt matter if i go plasma or lcd because i have a lcd in my bedroom where i game at. I have a philips 42pf9631d/37 curently in my living room and i want the new tv to be leaps and bounds better (if i go xbr4 then i might move the phlips 42 into the bedrom and get rid of my 37 olevia lcd and make the xbr my gaming tv). well opinions and suggestions are welcome. thanks.

Yes you are correct. I just put up a Sony 52 in a customers house on Saturday, and I noticed the same thing. I ran both Component and HDMI from that Sat receiver and noticed the same thing... I was awefull... SD tv was unwatchable. So I play with the backlighting controls, and MPEG noise reduction a bit, it seemed to smoothen it out abit but still not close to being good for the money. I also tried several settings 1080i vs 720p, and finally after some deliberation, we ended up settling on the 720p. SO, this is the interesting thing, He bought a LG combo player... The HD DVD, looked normal, but the Blu side was grainy? I tried several settings, and once again we were at 720p looking the sharpest for both formats...? Well needless to say after about 4 hours of messing around with the stupid set up, he wanted to try a different set... Oh crap! So needless to say I called my distributer up 10 minutes before close, and all he had left was a 50 hitachi plasma, and a 52" toshiba 1080p regza... We went with the Regza panel. Well after farting around with the mount for 45 mins, we had it up. I did some basic picture control settings, and bam... No problems, HD sat in 1080' looked sharp and clean, no flaws. 720p looked a bit beamy on the contrast, and nice sharp images. 1080i looked natural, stayed with that setting. On the HD DVD/BR player, we cranked it right up to 1080p, and presto!!! It looked great!!! Both HD and BR played beautifully. I wouldn't personally get the LG machine but for basic operation it does that task. I did however mention to him that the HD DVD feature may not all be there(from my experience with the one I bought) He said he would try it for a couple weeks, and let me know.

If that helps?

good stuff ReaggieP

Thanks Reggie, that's some good info in there.

ReaggieP said -

Quote:
"I just put up a Sony 52 in a customers house on Saturday, and I noticed the same thing. I ran both Component and HDMI from that Sat receiver and noticed the same thing... It was aweful..."

The new 2007 Sony XBR4 series has a flaw from one of the "Motionflow" image processing settings, as documented in reviews, such as on CNET.com - "smooth motion seems unnatural for film-based material and introduces some artifacts".

I've seen this "120hz" TV a few times, at a local Circuit City, and ironically there is a "motion blur" that is very noticeable, even on slight movement. But I always thought it depending on the TV's settings, since a few posters on AVS state they have reduced the overall "ghosting" effect, after many attempts in setting adjustment.

More on this TV's performance from Cnet.com -

We also noticed a few artifacts produced by the Sony's processing, particularly in High mode. During Chapter 7 of Flags the camera follows a plane as it takes off quickly, and at a certain point in the pan the entire frame suddenly "locks in" to smooth mode, and a palm tree in the foreground unnaturally becomes solid where before it had evinced judder. We saw that effect in both modes, but in High the plane also evinced a faint, decidedly unnatural "ghost" that followed behind it. Sony's engineers told us they'd designed the set to function primarily in Standard mode, and that some artifacts might arise from the more aggressive smoothing action of High. In a scene from Digital Video Essentials on HD DVD, we also noticed (in both modes again) that the yellow fence behind a pair of frolicking youths suddenly scrambled and broke up, then resumed normal appearance the next instant. Again, the scrambling was more apparent in High mode.

While this LCD HDTV is commendable, I still recommend the Sharp D64U series, both for price and performance, as Sharp's image processing and other settings offers excellent image detail, especially "shadow detail' among scenes with much depth, without false contouring (unlike other displays).

My favorite TV technology though is PLASMA, and I would recommmend the Panasonic model mentioned above against any LCD, especially for important 'home theater' viewing of movies and concerts, such as when watching with the lights turned off (dark room), as the plasma's superior contrast is more pronounced over any LCD. And plasma offers higher resolution in scenes among moving images, usually providing 800-900 lines (out of 1080), vs 500-600 of LCD. This is quite noticeable when viewing movies with lots of rapid action, such as the 'Bourne' movies, and sporting events on TV, etc.

-LH (the Loverboy)

well i was able to pick up the XBR4 and use my %8 off AAA coupon at CC. The crazy thing is one CC had it for $2999 and the next one had it for $3399, i wanted to buy it at a BB to get rewards but ended up going back to the first CC because of the huge difference in price. It washed out to just under $3k out the door and i got the free blu ray pack as well. I hooked it up last night and played with the settings and this tv looks leaps and bounds better then my philips plasma. I tried to get it to ghost and there was no such thing on my set.

like reaggie wrote, any 1080p toshiba regza would be better than either TV.

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[Post edited by posters5 on Feb 7, 2008]

Quote:
While this LCD HDTV is commendable, I still recommend the Sharp D64U series, both for price and performance, as Sharp's image processing and other settings offers excellent image detail, especially "shadow detail' among scenes with much depth, without false contouring (unlike other displays).

as always thanks for the good info. and wanted to thank you again, i picked up a d64 and i love it love it love it. got it for 1500, with free blu player and the 3 free movies. the player still sealed just hit 300 on ebay. also sold the free discs. plus got rewards coming aswell.

many who game/watch movies... that seen it. loved it so far aswell.

Well it looks like you already made your decision but I would have gone with the Panasonic TH-58PZ700U you asked about. I have owned that exact same model since it first came out last spring, and it's an awesome TV.

Mine is located in my theater room in my basement, so reflections off of the screen are a non-issue. My Toshiba A1 HD DVD and my Samsung BDP-1400 Blu player both look stellar on the Panny plasma. For cablevision viewing I have a Motorola hi def box thru Shaw up in Canada, also looks great.

The black levels on my set are as good as anything out there except for the new Kuro line from Pioneer, and overall picture quality is just superb. I spent a fortune on this set as I got it when it was first released, but it has been worth every penny.

None of the above...

Pioneer all the way!

I agree the Pioneer Kuro is fantastic...but at a significant cost the Panasonic has an excellent quality image for quite a bit less. If money is no object than great go for the Kuro..but for most of us even the 58" Panny plasma will be a stretch.

True, BH...but you/others could save some Benjamins and go with the best.

TOSHIBA REGZA OR ELSE:

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[Post edited by posters5 on Feb 7, 2008]

Your whole pic is not coming out, posters. What does it say?

Quote:
True, BH...but you/others could save some Benjamins and go with the best.

To tell you the truth that's exactly what I did when I bought the 58" Panasonic Viera plasma....at that time the Kuro wasn't available

Doesn't that just piss you off?

You buy top-o-the-line and a little later, something better is coming out.

Damn technological strides!

Go with the Panasonic, in my experience Sony will sell Mid-Range Stuff at High-End Prices unless they're just trying to make a name for themselves in a particular market segment.

Panasonic sells a straight up solid product and you know what you're getting when you buy it... Not only that but Matushita is a much bigger and better company than Sony.

Quote:
You buy top-o-the-line and a little later, something better is coming out.

Damn technological strides!

Good things come to those who wait.

I got a great deal on my Pioneer KURO plasma from Best Buy...

$2699 ($700 off of the $3499 MSRP)
-$270 (10% BB coupon)
-$200 (price-match after BB lowered the price 2 weeks later)
Final price $2230 + tax charged to my BB credit card

-Payment terms: 0% interest for 3 full years (by Jan 2011) - low minimum monthly payment due each month (and I never pay late - use the internet payment option on BB's site, which is free).

-LH (The Loverboy)

LOVERBOY: THE INTEREST IS BEING PAID BY US HAVING TO READ ABOUT YOUR DENIALS REGARDING OBSOLETE BLU-RAY PLAYERS.

Oh, I'm sorry -you- don't have a Best Buy Credit Card, Eddie.

-LH (The Loverboy)

WHO NEEDS CREDIT CARDS WHEN YOU CAN PAY IN CASH?

Well, last year Eddie I remember you indicated your HD viewing is on an older Sharp 30-inch 720p LCD HDTV. So, are you perhaps considering a substantial upgrade in screen size this year, and will you "pay in cash"?

I just love 0% interest 3-yr financiing offers. Helps with your budget, and cash flow (monthly expenses etc). Maybe you'll pick up a PS3 later, or the Panasonic BD50 forthcoming unit.

-LH (The Loverboy)

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[Post edited by Love Hendrix! on Feb 7, 2008]

for everyone who bashed sony, you must be insane. this tv is amazing!!! i dont have any of the problems anyone complained about and after calibrating it i couldnt want anything more. i think people on this forum need to get over the sony vs toshiba thing because recomending the toshiba lcd over the sony, panasonic or pioneer is laughable at best. the sony and panasonic were side by side running blu ray at CC and the pictures were very close, the sony was a little bit brighter and lighter but after changing the settings on both the picture was very close. i gave the edge to the panasonic but the overall size (bezel included) was just a little to big for a 14 x 14 living room so i went with the sony. if you have a big room and dont plan on gaming then the panasonic is the tv but if you want a big tv that you will game on then go for the sony and dont listen to all the sony bashers. if i had a budget of $7500 then i would of gone elite but for $3000 you cant beat the sony or panasonic.

Go Plasma...

The Samsung HP-T5064 rated 8.0 out of 10 by CNET and considered one of the top Plasma TV's on the market. I just bought one last night and I can see why it is rated high and people who own them rave about them.

kozumassbullitt,

The XBR4 has known issues. It is not a matter of Sony Vs Toshiba. That Sony TV is a peice of S**T. Sony even admitted that there was issues with it. LoveHendrix is a Sony fan and even posted links reguarding reviews of the TV issues. I installed one myself, and had problems with it. Just because SONY is the largest electronics manufacture, doen't exclude them from creating garbage once and a while. Crap, Samsung built all garbage untill 5 years ago. If you ask me, Today I wouldn't still buy a samsung. I still haven't. I'm living by those words. I won a $400 portable dvd player a few years ago, and still today it doesn't play all dvd's. Look at all the issues Samsung is having with Blu-Ray players? I would never trust Samsung.

My point being is the Toshiba Regza panels are a better tv than the XBR4, not all SONY tv's. Sony makes some of the best tv's, but not all of their tvs are the Holy Grail. Panasonic to this date, has probably the number 2 plasma tv's on the market. Pioneer Elite, still to this date holds specs, that the other manufactures have either ignored, or won't produce due to cost. I'm still leary of Sharp, due to their track record(similar to Samsung's), but admit their LCD panels are attractgive for their pricepoint. Their DLP projectors are excellent! Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have been working in this industry for over 10 years, and have seen lots of different product hit stores, and I can tell you that all of the manufactures are on the same ship at one point of the manufacturing boat somewhere. Sony is no saviour, nor is Toshiba, nor Panasonic. Their only interest is $$$$$

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[Post edited by ReaggieP on Feb 9, 2008]

i must have been very lucky, i have no issues with my new xbr4. i had some people over and they are wowed by the tv. cnet reviewed the xbr4 as the best lcd you can buy and falls a little short of the high end plasmas ie pioneer and panasonic. if you think the regza is better then pay half the price and believe that, more power to you. i say you get what you pay for and i am very happy with my purchuse and maybe i did pay a little more then what it should cost because of brand recognition but we all do that in one case or another for satisfaction. I have had a xbox 360 that died in 1 week and i got another one and i love it, if i just returned the broken one and got something else then maybe my stand on the 360 would be sour like some peoples stand on the xbr4. check out the reviews on CC,BB and amazon the xbr4 seems to please many people.

on a side note, my tv has a january 2008 manf. date on it. i am not sure if this would make a difference in my problem free set.

nice!