A Blu-ray Civil War?

Good Luck To The Winner, Hope This War Ends Soon.

Hmmm... So... is this going to be... PS3 Vs. SA? FW 1.2 Vs. FW 2.0? Sony Vs. LG Vs. Samsung vs. whoever else makes BR-DVD players?

:: Puts finger on nose ::

I'm excited... are you excited? I'm excited.

I wrote the following yesterday on another thread, but it also belongs here....

The 'hits' against the Samsung Blu-ray players are mostly undeserved. The players are made to specs. Then, some of the studios (like Fox and Disney) start changing the disc-content file encodes for the added BD+ security, and/or BD-Java interactive content - which means now the Samsung players (and others) will require a firmware update for playback compatibility.

The BDA members (studios, hardware makers etc) need to address this issue post haste and provide REAL SOLUTIONS, and get the 'issue' behind them, or else Blu-ray will not grow into the mainstream. You can bet that Sony is behind-the-scenes working to solve the problem, as they have the biggest investment in Blu-ray, and the most to lose if it fails to be widely adopted... as well as the most royalties to be made if and when it does become a success.

I really doubt that by Christmas 2008, these 'fimware update' issues will be nagging the format, unless the studio execs continue to experiment or change the file encodes... so, it's in their hands now whether to get the problem solved soon, or let it grow to even bigger proportions as many in the HD-DVD camp cross-over into Blu-ray over the next year, and bad word-of-mouth results from disappointed new BD owners.

-LH (The Loverboy)
~ HI-DEF DUAL FORMAT SUPPORTER ~

The 'hits' against the Samsung Blu-ray players are mostly undeserved. The players are made to specs. Then, some of the studios (like Fox and Disney) start changing the disc-content file encodes for the added BD+ security, and/or BD-Java interactive content - which means now the Samsung players (and others) will require a firmware update for playback compatibility.

I get that LH. But "some of the studios" "samsung" or my uncle. the playback retardation sucks. And I still believe is noticeably worst on the samsung players regardless.

LH... I was just making a joking commentary. Nothing was meant to be serious. Hell I wasn't even certain whether Samsung produced Blu-Ray players.

OMG I just read this article and can't believe this news!

This is basically saying that with the format war drawing to a close, the Blu-ray CE manufacturers will be in fierce competition for market share with each other based on feature sets and price points?

With the way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if the next article to appear here had the headline: "Rumor Confirmed. America is not a communist country". That would really freak me out.

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"Rumor Confirmed. America is not a communist country".

Wait... no no no... we are. Trust me.

Mike37... my post above was not in direct reference to your post (above mine). I had posted what you see above on another thread (player discussion), and when noticing the subject of -this- thread (and related linkd story), I thought my comment would be better suited here. Usually when I'm directly responding to another msgbd member, I'll mention their name, and/or also quote something from their comment, to either refute and correct, or praise.

-LH (The Loverboy)

Now that I have that off my chest... How long have forum goers said that BDA has been BETA testing the Blu-Ray format? They even admitted releasing it prematurely. I don't feel like digging through the old posts to quote most of the BR supporters, but I can safely say "We told you so". Most of you that own the PS3 are lucky. I owned a deck, and it turns out, every single symptom I have was due to profile change. But no, My laser had to be out of alignment... Wasn't that you Skyhawk? Oh well, water under the bridge... I like at the end... Blame HD DVD for being complete when it hit the Market? LOL Now that was funny... It's too bad 90% of consumers will never see that article... Wait, I'm going to print off a handful and hand them around to sales guys, next time I go shopping... If a 2.0 player doesn't hit the shelves right away, OH BOY, Some heads are going to ROLL

[Post edited by ReaggieP on Feb 15, 2008]

I'll agree that BD not being completely standardized was awful (compared to HD-DVD). However, the consumer had more choices with BD players than HD-DVD players. Someone will argue that Toshiba had players for all price points but in terms of customer service and timely firmware updates, you had no choice but Toshiba (Onkyo had a late player which seems to have fizzled out of existence).

I too would recommend the PS3 for the best upgrade path but if you are a true home theater aficianado, wait for the Profile 2.0 players coming out Summer/Fall (Panny BD-50 is good example). The PS3 is Bluetooth and there's no direct way to integrate with universal remotes w/o exotic solutions. My "perfect BD player" has all the following:

1) Profile 2.0 (ie. ethernet mandatory, 1GB storage, etc.)
2) IR control (for universal remotes)
3) Internal decoding of all HBR audio, including DTS-HD MA
4) Multichannel analog out for further audio flexibility

With the exception of internal DTS-HD MA decoding and 1GB storage, the Toshiba XA2 was close to the ideal.

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Mike37... my post above was not in direct reference to your post (above mine). I had posted what you see above on another thread (player discussion), and when noticing the subject of -this- thread (and related linkd story), I thought my comment would be better suited here. Usually when I'm directly responding to another msgbd member, I'll mention their name, and/or also quote something from their comment, to either refute and correct, or praise.

Whoopsy-doodly! Sorry there LH.


You know... I've caught myself saying Net Flanderesque things lately.

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I owned a deck, and it turns out, every single symptom I have was due to profile change. But no, My laser had to be out of alignment... Wasn't that you Skyhawk?

No, I'm the one who told you to take your Samsung back and get a PS3

It was a SONY, and you told me that it was just my player. I don't recall you saying anything about a PS3?

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I don't recall you saying anything about a PS3?

Are you new to these boards? All I talk about here on the Blu-ray side is my PS3!

shaddai mentioned:

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2) IR control (for universal remotes)

I'd rather all other CE drop IR and go Bluetooth, then give us a universal Bluetooth remote. You see, my projector is ceiling mounted about 5' behind the seating area. Then I have two separate places for my equipment to the right of me along the wall, one just behind me to the right, another between 2 media cabinets about 6 feet in front of me. I can't point a universal remote to three places at once (yes I know there are solutions to this), but it's still a pain in planning out your HT configuration. IR doesn't bounce good either, because of the dark coverings and acoustic treatments I've applied in the room.

:: Eyeballs Skyhawks PS3::

That's uh... that's pretty... pretty... oooo shiny...

:: Eyeballs it some more. ::

Skyhawk

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I'd rather all other CE drop IR and go Bluetooth

This is a joke, right? Do you have any idea how many service tickets get turned in on bluetooth devices every hour??? Granted it's usually pairing issues but still. I can't recall the last time I heard of anything about an IR remote other than it getting damaged or 10 years old and dead.

I love this one!!! It's HD-DVD's fault that we can't get our act together and they had a pretty much finalized product already to market. Remind me again how these people are winning??? Oh yeah, $$$ony money.

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This is a joke, right?

Absolutely not. IR line-of-sight communication is ancient, and I think it's time for something more advanced - regardless of the technology, so that the limitations I've had difficulties with are overcome. And the Bluetooth implementations of both my PS3 and my cellphone headset have operated without a hitch, so I know this technology works regardless of your opinion. Again, the problem with IR is that I cannot control devices at the same time around my room, let alone around my house. It's time to move on.

Skyturkey,
Do you ever actually pay attention to what you're reading and writing or is that too difficult for you? I never said Bluetooth doesn't work, only that it's not as foolproof and reliable as your "ancient" IR remote. When the proverbial grandma in Peoria can use bluetooth remotes without a hitch, then they'll become a valid replacement option. Until then, only people like you with your "special wall coatings" will be bitching about it.

Well, they make Bluetooth devices for people like Skyhawk with higher end setups, but yes, IR works fine for most folk (just like standard DVDs ) and will be the standard for years to come.


I love how they blame HD-DVD for being p.o.s. incomplete hardware. "well, they we're working better before us, so its their fault we suck". Its like blaming the smart kid for throwing off the grading curve. Its not his fault you're just an idiot hoping everyone else is as stupid as you. HD-DVD will likely lose, but its not because it was incomplete. It just didnt have the financial backing of $ony.

ANd now they'll cannibalize each other. Showing yet again how greedy Sony is. Much like the Queen song, they "want it all".

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HD-DVD will likely lose, but its not because it was incomplete.

Well until HD DVD has Bluetooth and built in wifi, and under $200... I'll just buy Blu.

kidding... I've owned HD DVD for over a year.

The irony in all of this remote control bitching is I'd guarantee you just about every one of us at some point in far distant past had to get our collective arses off the couch and go change the chanel by hand!

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I'd rather all other CE drop IR and go Bluetooth, then give us a universal Bluetooth remote. You see, my projector is ceiling mounted about 5' behind the seating area. Then I have two separate places for my equipment to the right of me along the wall, one just behind me to the right, another between 2 media cabinets about 6 feet in front of me. I can't point a universal remote to three places at once (yes I know there are solutions to this), but it's still a pain in planning out your HT configuration. IR doesn't bounce good either, because of the dark coverings and acoustic treatments I've applied in the room.

No offense Skyhawk, but this is one of the stupidest posts I've seen from you. It might be beneficial for *you* but not for most of the general population. It would mean dumping all current devices that use IR for Bluetooth which is a hell of a lot more expensive and hassle than simply making a Blu-Ray player/PlayStation with IR.

Anyway, if you have your devices all over the place the way that you do, there is a solution. There are RF adapters for IR universal remotes so you don't need to point the controller directly at the devices, they can even be in a closed closet if you want.

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No offense Skyhawk, but this is one of the stupidest posts I've seen from you. It might be beneficial for *you* but not for most of the general population. It would mean dumping all current devices that use IR for Bluetooth which is a hell of a lot more expensive and hassle than simply making a Blu-Ray player/PlayStation with IR.

Yeah, I could install dongles all over the room (and house). I'd prefer not to, as I already explained. And I didn't imply that everyone "dump" current devices (please read my posts more carefully), but that CE manufacturers would dump IR in new devices in favor of a more advanced, up-to-date technology without line-of-sight limitations. That's just silly and a no-brainer IMO. Progress is GOOD!

As CE transitions, harmony and other universal remote providers can support both IR and a more advanced technology within the same unit.

Remotes???

You guys must not have kids..I don' t think I've seen a remote in our house since the day I opened the box for the TV,PS3, etc..anything that came with a remote.

Hendrix, the point is that this should have never happened. Sony gave BD+ features to the studios so that they would feel more secure about releasing their movies. I don't believe that Sony is in any way attempting to rapidly resolve these issues. Everywhere you go on the internet, the choice is clear - PS3 is the only way to go. But what about those people that go into stores and don't read message board postings? All those people know is that the movies they want are on BR and they are probably the type that just want a traditional player, and not a bulky gaming console. The majority of BR owners here, with their PS3's, are not concerned about these issues, so why should Sony?

I know I'd be pissed if I found out my free BR player that came with the purchase of my TV all of a sudden wouldn't play some new titles at all. I'm not a bad person by any means, but I hope that things do go bad for BR, simply for forcing things to go one way.

Look at the news about the PS3 out selling the 360, maybe not a crushing defeat, but definitely has to be attributed to BR's specifications. But will Sony be able to sell the PS3 to the traditional electronics consumers? Once again, no thanks, I'm not taking a gaming console, just because Sony hadn't gotten their shit together - and it's all HD-DVDs fault!

It's OK HD_Fanatic, you can just drop the "HD" from your name, since I heard upconverted DVD is good enough.

That's funny Skyhawk!

To my knowledge, Sony was NOT involved in the creation of BD+ Protection (info). And I believe ONLY Fox has insisted on using it on their Blu-ray discs. That 'playback issue', as well as the compatibility for BD-Java applications need to be resolved going forward... blah blah blah (I'm tired of saying this).

(from above link) - BD+ is a component of the Blu-ray Disc Digital Rights Management system. It was developed by Cryptography Research Inc. and is based on their Self-Protecting Digital Content concept. BD+ is effectively a small virtual machine embedded in authorized players. It allows content providers to include executable programs on Blu-ray Discs. On November 19 2007, Macrovision announced that it planned to acquire the SPDC technology (including patents and software code) from CRI for US$45 million in cash plus stock warrants.

-LH (The Loverboy)

So why do people like Blu-Ray so much when HD-DVD doesn't have these problems?

jhairforce.... BOTH hi-def disc formats have great A/V quality. The Blu-ray camp though has some current 'issues' with the BD+/BD-Java being implemented on select titles.

Also... CONTENT, CONTENT, CONTENT.

Content is POWER (Blu-ray has it).

Enough speculation for now.

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)
-my new nickname-

They have content, true, but how would you feel if you couldn't actually access said content?

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It's OK HD_Fanatic, you can just drop the "HD" from your name, since I heard upconverted DVD is good enough.

Meh. I still have DirecTV HD and 360 gaming. I also heard that profile 1.0 is 'good enough'.

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So why do people like Blu-Ray so much when HD-DVD doesn't have these problems?

It's pretty simple to me, Sony out marketed them. The BR advertising was awesome, I mean you see the Sony adds "HD, It's in our DNA", and "Beyond HD", I mean we here in this forum, laugh at this crap, BUT to the average person who is unaware, that means something. They think they are getting something BETTER, when it is, in fact, the same. OR, as some of you guys say here, "not even up to par with HDDVD!!"

Then you also have the consumers going to places like BB, where BR is what they have ALWAYS been pushing.

[Post edited by Blu_Bawla on Feb 15, 2008]

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I also heard that profile 1.0 is 'good enough'.

If all you care about is watching the movie and "normal" special features then, yes, 1.0 is good enough. You will not get PIP or be able to use content that requires a lot of persistent memory. In other words, if you are used to the best special features of HD-DVD, then profile 1.0 is "not good enough."