Re: Toshiba, MS, and Panasonic started a working commitee on DVD2 format, recreating HD-DVD experience on DVD

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This is incorrect. The DVD6C first lowered royalties for DVD effective January 1, 2002 by 33%,

Great, that's 5 years after the DVD launch.

Since Blu-Ray launched in 2006, we will have to wait until 2011 to see the first royalty break according to you.

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Invalidate what? How can something that doesn't exist and not even rumored to ever be in existance be "invalidated"?

http://www.dvdtown.com/news/toshiba-ceo-talks-about-life-after-hd-dvd/5299

"If you watch standard DVDs on our players, the images are of very high quality because they include an "upconverting" feature. And we're going to improve this even more, so that consumers won't be able to tell the difference from HD DVD images." - Nishida Atsutoshi, CEO Toshiba Corporation

An upconversion better than normal upconversion? An upconversion so good that consumers won't be able to tell the difference from HD-DVD? What is Mr. Nishida talking about? Super Upconversion, of course.

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The OP said that a new DVD2 format is in the works that will require a new player out later this year or the next that will debute for $150 and have "Super Upconversion", with a native resolution of 9 hundred and something progressive lines.

It turns out the OP was just making this stuff up,

1. DVDForum WG-12 exists, studying how to implement HDi on DVD. You can look it up at DVDForum.com if you like.
2. Toshiba CEO confirms Super Upconversion coming to DVD players during his interview with WSJ.

I didn't make up stuffs. I just put together pieces of factually correct information together,

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And it's not my job to "invalidate" claims of the Easter Bunny. It's up to the one making such claims to substantiate them.

I cannot be responsible for you missing out all the relevant news.

But then again, I just noticed Skyhawk's response to Toshiba CEO's Super Upconversion comment.

Skyhawk's Response

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No wonder Skyhawk refuses to believe DVD2 players with Super Upconversion built in, with all the factual evidences around.

At this point its all speculation...

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With Blu-Ray, $199 is really really difficult due to $60 player royalty and the restriction on who could make those.

One benefit to DVD 2.0 is that most people have more than one DVD player in their house hold, which makes it flexible for viewing.

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However don't think that people will settle for anything less than "true HD

This can be true, but not convenient (until BR has combo formats), the majority of consumers aren't tech savvy and will chose convenience. How many copies of movies are consumers going to buy? An HD and an SD for all their other SD players, or is everyone planning on buying 2 plus BR player to keep the flexibility they have now.

I've already switched all my VHS to DVD, I don't plan on doing again for BR.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20080314220743_DVD_Forum_s_Work_Group_12_Set_to_Communicate_with_Blu_Ray_Disc_Association.html

Looks like DVD 2.0 rough spec is already done and relevant information will be set to BDA shortly to make Blu-Ray players DVD2 compatible.

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1. DVDForum WG-12 exists, studying how to implement HDi on DVD.

The WG-12 was formed last year, and the working title of the group is "Network Applications". No one knows what exactly this group will be doing, nor whether if anything comes out of it, or if any products will incorporate anything that does come out of it.

Additionally, the Toshiba CEO was said nothing about:

1. "Super Upconversion"
2. "$150 new format players available this year or next"
3. DVD2

etc. etc. etc.

You just made all this crap up. If you're going to speculate and wonder "Gee, perhaps Toshiba might put the Cell processor in DVD players someday, and introduce the kind of upconversion announced in their high-end HDTVs. Perhaps they might even sell for a price around $150. And perhaps some future DVD players might even include Internet interactivity too! And perhaps pigs have wings", then feel free to speculate. But don't make up crap and put it out there like it was actually real. That's stupid.

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and the working title of the group is "Network Applications". No one knows what exactly this group will be doing

Actually we do, HDi and networking implementation on DVD.

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nor whether if anything comes out of it

A rough spec is being sent to BDA for incorperation into Blu-Ray players.

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or if any products will incorporate anything that does come out of it.

You can guarantee Toshiba and Xbox 360s will implement DVD2.

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Additionally, the Toshiba CEO was said nothing about:

1. "Super Upconversion"

Well, "Super Upconversion" is an arbitrary name. In Japan, it goes by SD2HD. When Toshiba CEO says "Better than normal upconversion", you know what he's talking about.

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2. "$150 new format players available this year or next"

Well, Toshba CEO did say Super Upconversion DVD players would be cheaper than Blu-Ray players, right?

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3. DVD2

Well, this is an official DVD Forum initiative, and Toshiba is the driving force behind it as the chair company.

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You just made all this crap up.

Others disagree, with evidence before their eyes.

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If you're going to speculate and wonder "Gee, perhaps Toshiba might put the Cell processor in DVD players someday

It's not a speculation, but a direct confirmation from Toshiba CEO.

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And perhaps some future DVD players might even include Internet interactivity too!

It is not purhaps, but an official DVD Forum initiative.

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But don't make up crap and put it out there like it was actually real. That's stupid.

You fail to convince others.

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Actually we do, HDi and networking implementation on DVD.

You're even speculating about that, since no mention is made of HDi on the dvdforum.org site in relation to WG-12.

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A rough spec is being sent to BDA for incorperation into Blu-Ray players.

Oh please, stop making things up. There is no source on the entire internet that makes any indication such a spec has even been started, let alone completed, nor being "sent to the BDA".

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You can guarantee Toshiba and Xbox 360s will implement DVD2.

There is no such thing as "DVD2". So this stage, having real companies incorporate imaginary technology is more than even wild speculation.

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Well, "Super Upconversion" is an arbitrary name. In Japan, it goes by SD2HD. When Toshiba CEO says "Better than normal upconversion", you know what he's talking about.

The Toshiba CEO said "And we're going to improve this even more", which at least is better than making it even worse. Doh! I hope Silicon Optix improves the performance of their video processing, deinterlacing, and scaling technology as well. I'm sure they will, as technology tends to move forward rather than backward.

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Well, Toshba CEO did say Super Upconversion DVD players would be cheaper than Blu-Ray players, right?

No, the CEO said that their future players would be cheaper than Blu-ray is now. I don't know how the heck that translates to "Super Upconversion Players for $150".

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Well, this is an official DVD Forum initiative, and Toshiba is the driving force behind it as the chair company.

No, the WG-12's initiative is (and I quote): "To study and specify network applications and related network specification of DVD Forum formats, make recommendations for better interoperability and functionality of network connected DVD Forum specified devices and content, and communicate on relevant recommendations with other standard creation organizations."

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It's not a speculation, but a direct confirmation from Toshiba CEO.

Please post a link that directly quotes the Toshiba CEO as saying that they will be including the Cell processor in this $150 imaginary player?

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You fail to convince others.

Try and convince the folk at AVSForum with such made up nonsense, and see how much time goes by before your post is deleted.

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You're even speculating about that, since no mention is made of HDi on the dvdforum.org site in relation to WG-12.

And you are expecting DVD Forum to adopt BD-J, especially the head company of WG-12 is Microsoft? The fact that DVD Forum is already sending the rough draft of spec to BDA confirms this is based on existing technology.

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Oh please, stop making things up. There is no source on the entire internet that makes any indication such a spec has even been started, let alone completed, nor being "sent to the BDA".

Read the article I linked again, or for the first time. I am not responsible for your lack of knowledge.

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There is no such thing as "DVD2". So this stage, having real companies incorporate imaginary technology is more than even wild speculation.

It will be hilarious when BDA receives a packet from DVD Forum containing tech spec for an imaginary technology.

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The Toshiba CEO said "And we're going to improve this even more", which at least is better than making it even worse. Doh! I hope Silicon Optix improves the performance of their video processing, deinterlacing, and scaling technology as well. I'm sure they will, as technology tends to move forward rather than backward.

Super Upconversion is better than Silicon Optix and is a Toshiba inhouse tech.

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No, the CEO said that their future players would be cheaper than Blu-ray is now. I don't know how the heck that translates to "Super Upconversion Players for $150".

Based on Toshiba's HD-DVD player pricing. Always half the price of a Blu-Ray player.

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Please post a link that directly quotes the Toshiba CEO as saying that they will be including the Cell processor in this $150 imaginary player?

Consumer Electronics Super Upconversion uses low cost SpursEngine(less than $50 for the implementation), not CELL.

How about a direct quote from the CEO saying they would be including the SpursEngine in the next $150 Toshiba DVD players? I'm also wondering about the speculation concerning the pricing ($50), since last I heard Toshiba has yet to even finalize plans to commercialize the SpursEngine.

It's fun to speculate as you do, but again talking about this as if it were real is dumb.

[Post edited by Skyhawk on Mar 18, 2008]

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OK, how about a direct quote from the CEO saying they would be including the SpursEngine in the next $150 Toshiba DVD players?

Well, that's like asking for a direct quote from CEO kaz Hirai on PS4 spec, or Bill Gates on Vista SP2.

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I'm also wondering about the speculation concerning the pricing ($50), since last I heard Toshiba has yet to even finalize plans to commercialize the SpursEngine.

Die size and fab processing detail are already revealed. The implementation cost is easy to calculate. Afterall, we are talking about a small chip(less than 80 mm2) fabbed on a cheap bulk process.

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It's fun to speculate as you do, but again talking about this as if it were real is dumb.

The level of analysis I can do is simply behind your level of understanding.