> WoW! Toshiba LO$T at least $1 BILLION on HD-DVD in 2007!

Major FYI....

> Toshiba Swallows a BILLION on HD-DVD in 2007!

Oh my - this is a greater loss than I remember from 1985, when RCA wrote off about $600-$700 million (in 1980s value!) on their failed CED videodisc system. And Congrats to Skyhawk, who has been right all along, about the losses the company HAD to be taking with these super low-priced players!

In my opinion, probably close to $2 billion total for their entire development/cost/failed format losses for HD-DVD since the format was created several years ago. Incredible!

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

[Post edited by Love Hendrix! on Mar 12, 2008]

And yet we have posts like this, Toshiba, MS, and Panasonic started a working commitee on DVD2 format, recreating HD-DVD experience on DVD, thanks LH, you truely know how to apply a nice dose of reality. (WINK)

[Post edited by tony1569 on Mar 12, 2008]

Thanks Tony... And I really think everyone should adopt TRUE HD - Blu-ray - and don't settle for this possible 'DVD2'/Super-Upconversion. Over the next year or so, Blu-ray players will become more affordable, 2.0 profile compliant, even more available titles with FULL STUDIO SUPPORT, and lower disc prices (with sales/discounts), although slightly higher than DVD for the time being. Unless one just hates Blu-ray with a passion, I'd avoid DVD2.

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

Quote:
Toshiba Swallows a BILLION on HD-DVD in 2007!

Thats Chump Change in the HDM business Hendrix.

Don't forget, Sony paid out HALF that amount alone to Warner for their HD exclusivity deal, and Toshiba threw in the towel in 45 days

Now how does Sony write off that Half-Billion US$$ payment???

Didn't they also pay FOX another $150M to keep them from following Warner to HD DVD???

Format War Won, but I can't begin to imagine Sony's losses from their Blu Ray business, they are still burning R&D money on BRD Profile2.0, they have an enormous advertising budget, and what about the countless $$$ they paid to studios to Stay or Go Blu???

What about the P$3 subsidies, they were supposed to be losing more than $200 per Playstation 3 Console??

Now they need to start hemorrhaging some serious money to battle SD DVD??

I'll bet you that Sony lost at least 5 times that much on Blu Ray over the same time frame, and it only gets them a small shelf space at Wal Mart.

The Blu selection is really hard to find when they have racks upon racks of SD DVD's, which still outsell Blu Ray 100:1

I'd really like to see Sony's financial statements on what they have lost on Blu in 2007, and they still have a long uphill battle to try to defeat DVD.

While that is allot of money.
Its the risk that most company's take with new technology. And 1 billion dollars is not going to kill
a huge company like Toshiba who is heavily diversified.
For example
Sony's game division is expected to report an operating loss of more than $958 million, in the year through March. And they won!

Sony indeed has spent to date over $1 billion itself on Blu-ray and PS3 infrastructure, replication plants, hardware/promotions, etc, but in time they stand to make a profit as more people adopt into a single hi-def disc format (now that the war is over), with increase player and disc sales for many years to come.

DVD will remain the most popular overall, but Sony's profit forecasts will eventually be met, as long as the PS3 and Blu-ray keep steadily growing, with increased adoption. And for this to happen, I believe you will see lower-priced Blu-ray players and discs over the next year - and the format will be successful (profitable) by 2010-11.

Sony will reap the rewards of their HD investment in due time... however, unfortunately for Toshiba, the company has lost a nice sum in their attempt to provide the most popular HD disc format. Sony itself lost over $500 million a year or so ago, being responsible for producing bad quality laptop computer batteries.

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

Quote:
Sony will reap the rewards of their HD investment in due time...

Sure they will, just as soon as the DVD Forum throws in the towel and declares DVD dead.

Oh Wait, that might take another 5 years, but by then both DVD and Blu Ray will have HD Downloads and HD VOD to compete with as well.

Every new Broadband Internet Subscriber with 10-20+ Mbps download capability is another nail in Blu Ray's coffin.

HD DVD's coffin might be nailed shut and buried, but Blu Ray also has it's own coffin, and the nails are already starting to be hammered in.

I see people keep referring to HD-VOD and HD Downloads... Don't think this will be the next format to win everything. I like most people need to have a physical disc or physical something in my possession , and neither of those formats provide that.

Hendrix, is there anything you dont know? You are my personal HD god!

LOL Now tha was funny. When I think of Hendrix, I think of this guy...

Quote:
I like most people need to have a physical disc or physical something in my possession , and neither of those formats provide that.

I think only the people that keep repeating this over and over are the ones that need a physical disc in their posession. I for one don't need a consistantly growing rack of movie cases in my living room for anything other than bragging rights. I would be happy to toss everyone of my HD DVD's/SD DVD's if I could have the digital equivalent. It would free up a lot of room in my house for more junk that I don't really need.

So what? Sony is indebt up their @$$ because of BD-and their BD player capable of playing games (PS3). They owe the Japanese government at least $800 million dollars (that we know of) and we all know that Sony is loosing around $200 per PS3 sold (and that's a conservative figure, actually it was loosing $240 for the $600 model and $307 for the $500).

So at the ratio of $200 per PS3, in the US alone Sony has lost about 812,500,000 dollars. If you do the math world wide $2.1 billion dollars! So just because Sony won that doesn't make them any smarter in wasting money. BTW LH, don't come crying FUD like you always do when you can't handle a truth which does not matches your believes.

Just do the math, and if you want sources look for them yourself, if you are smart enough to find pro-BD info I think you can be smart enough to find truthful BD info as well.

[Post edited by wii-lite on Mar 13, 2008]

I'm sorry... how many times did Sony try to universalize a format... only to be used ON VERY LIMITED BRANDS?

betamax, memory stick, md, sony mp3 'bean', sony's online music store (shut down), hi8, super hi8.

Most of these formats are dead.
Sigh.... I almost feel sorry for them.
I fear that my PS3, as a gaming machine, will last LONGER, than AS A movie blu ray player... and I don't play CONSOLE games.

[Post edited by xplaytendo on Mar 13, 2008]

Toshiba is beginning to look like a SCAM artist. Like I said before, they want all of the HD DVD supporters to now adopt this DVD2 technology, when they got their ass kicked by SONY. Yea right, I won't be in line for anything new from Toshiba for a long long time.

Quote:
I think only the people that keep repeating this over and over are the ones that need a physical disc in their posession. I for one don't need a consistantly growing rack of movie cases in my living room for anything other than bragging rights. I would be happy to toss everyone of my HD DVD's/SD DVD's if I could have the digital equivalent. It would free up a lot of room in my house for more junk that I don't really need.

And where exactly would you put the "digital equivalent" of an entire DVD collection? Unless you're one of those people who prefers to rent than buy, downloads are pointless until a reliable device is available that can store hundreds or thousands of movies with all of the options (special features, interactivity, sound options, etc.) that DVD provides.

Quote:
Toshiba is beginning to look like a SCAM artist. Like I said before, they want all of the HD DVD supporters to now adopt this DVD2 technology, when they got their ass kicked by SONY. Yea right, I won't be in line for anything new from Toshiba for a long long time.

I'd hardly call them a "scam artist", Toshiba is now more like sore looser who can't swallow its pride. But then again, how long did it take Sony to adopt VHS after they lost? (no, really, idk. does anyone remember?). Also, you are arguing nothing new from a company which is in the business of making money: Sony anyone? is not like they have never tried to shove down the consumer's throat a proprietary format in the lat 30 years (Betamax, UMD, MiniDisk, Memory stickand the list goes on...). So stop attacking Toshiba for something that EVERY COMPANY out there do.

What pisses me off is that SONY is the biggest rip off company in the world!!! They spend more money on useless gadgets, technology and BS stuff than any other company to make a quick buck!!! MiniDisc, SACD, peanut shell MP3's, and Walkmans were $$$ grabbers!!! And Digital Drive amplification? If you Blu Goggle wearing weiners could see Sony for what they actually are.... WOW. Conform or getout, that's what SONY is all about. They have always been that way and always will. You guys are probably to young to remember SONY, had a real issue with DVD when I first came out too.

All Toshiba is doing is protecting the Millions of dollars it has invested into the OS of HD DVD, and want to upgrade it's original invention DVD. I see nothing wrong with that? There is a 200+ million DVD users in NA alone that would benefit from an upgrade. Those that really want Blu-Ray will buy Blu-Ray! I see as Black and White. DVD has its market, and Blu-Ray has it's market. Two separate industries. DVD is about to get an upgrade, that all. Not new just and upgrade. It's about time! The Follow the White Rabbit from the Matrix was groundbreaking, now it is about time, we'll see more of that!!! Trust me, the last five years or so of DVD have really sucked! I was really looking forward to HD DVD carrying on, because I actually watch the special featurettes on Disk! I rented Into the Wild the other day on DVD and was sadly disappointed that there was NO special features on the rental! My wife and I sometimes spend a 1/2 hour or more just on the special features. Some are great, some lick @$$. That's the chance you take...

[Post edited by ReaggieP on Mar 13, 2008]

I am far from a Blu supporter, but it is what it is. And if SONY want's to blow their $ on useless things, well it is their money. However if the consumer is dumb enough to keep supporting a company like SONY, well it's their money also. So if the consumer wants to buy useless things (we do it everyday EX. The Pet Rock) then that is our power to do so.
Bottom line, whatever it may be, Toshiba in my eye looks like a scam artist. Think about it, do you think they woke up the very next day after they threw in the towel and said " hey I got a great idea, let's come out with DVD2, yea sounds good to me." They had this in the works for awhile I am sure. And shame on any HD DVD supporter who adopts the DVD2. Like I said, what they should have done, was to continue to support HD DVD at least until the end of the year.

Biker I think you have really flown the Cuckoo's nest. It's not a bandwagon jumping product. It's merely upgrading a current existing product. If you want the special features, you download the new firmware to your HD DVD player or you buy a new DVD player with the capabilities. That is all. The hope a goal is to make the most of a DVD movie. You are already spending $25 on a new DVD, why not get more out of it?

[Post edited by ReaggieP on Mar 13, 2008]

IB is a longtime HDDVD supporter, and if his words are any indication of how any current HDDVD supporters feel than that should tell you something. His opinion is from a realist perspective. He is looking at this and saying I gave TOSHIBA my hard earned dollars and not only did I lose my money now they are saying as a second place prize you can spend an additional $200 (or how ever much this thing will cost) to get this not so HD machine. He is saying HELL NO, (not to put words in your mouth IB) I'm not crazy.

Quote:
you buy a new DVD player with the capabilities.

That would be the 4th or 5th DVD player upgrade for me in 11 years, and I'd have to double-dip for the 3rd or 4th time on some catelog releases. These DVD profiles are killing me!

Hey, here's another idea. Cable TV companies can just forget about HD channels, cause they take too much bandwidth. Instead they would offer just standard NTSC with "internet interactive content" for only another $30 a month. Who would go for HD after this offer!!!???

I wont be jumping on that one anytime soon, and instead stick to high-definition. Really a no-brainer IMO. I'd rather download HD content even if HD DVD or Blu-ray didn't exist instead of buy into standard DVD with "internet features". At least it would be high definition!

there are so many things wrong with the rebuttals in here that it is an excercise in futility to try and disprove "stubbornness"

You are right thepro00.

Quote:
IB is a longtime HDDVD supporter, and if his words are any indication of how any current HDDVD supporters feel than that should tell you something. His opinion is from a realist perspective. He is looking at this and saying I gave TOSHIBA my hard earned dollars and not only did I lose my money now they are saying as a second place prize you can spend an additional $200 (or how ever much this thing will cost) to get this not so HD machine. He is saying HELL NO, (not to put words in your mouth IB) I'm not crazy

I'm pretty sure that his HD DVD player would play these disks. That's the point I was trying to make. That's all.

Hey Tony thanks for the support, yes that is basically in a nut shell what I am trying to say.
Reggie, no big deal, if they do make a firm wear update for my A2 then that would be great. But to say that they just came up with this DVD2, well I cannot accept that. They had to have this in the works for awhile. Maybe if they would have told all the HD DVD supporters back when they came up with the DVD2 concept, well that would have been a little easier to digest.
I have no hard feelings toward any of you guys, I appreciate your feed back, and I thank you for it. I am just glad that we can again have civil conversations about our passion for movies again.

And I am not being stubborn, I am just not going to spend anymore $ on another new format thats all.

hey reaggie im pretty sure netzero 56k speedburst can still work with your computer you should try it. (these kinds of "toshiba wannabees" still hold 14% of the world's internet users back with dialup, sickening!!!!!)

The only way I'd buy a DVD2 player is if Toshiba can really prove that the quality matches that of HD-DVD or BD because after all, I didn't buy a HD-DVD player for the online features (which are a nice addition), I went HD-DVD for the high resolution and stability of the format. So most likely I'm not going for DVD2 unless the players are cheap (less than $100).

Tim's on the Austin Powers kick today...

Quote:
hey reaggie im pretty sure netzero 56k speedburst can still work with your computer you should try it. (these kinds of "toshiba wannabees" still hold 14% of the world's internet users back with dialup, sickening!!!!!)

Hey I still use dialup!!! I use it when I'm in a third world country like Mexico sipping back on Corona's!!!

IB has seen the light at last. I'm glad you've finally opened your eyes my friend.

Here's more about Sony's $1 billion (too) gamble on Blu-ray, and...

> The Format War's Bloody Aftermath

(from 3/13) - A look at both sides ups-&-downs ETC, and while it will be a tough battle for Blu-ray to dominate over those people happy with 'upconverting' DVD quality.

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

Well Vortex I do wear glasses LOL. I am just a realist Vortex, but thanks for the recognition.

Quote:
Here's more about Sony's $1 billion (too) gamble on Blu-ray, and...

> The Format War's Bloody Aftermath

(from 3/13) - A look at both sides ups-&-downs ETC, and while it will be a tough battle for Blu-ray to dominate over those people happy with 'upconverting' DVD quality.

Wow, what an interested article LH, I'd like to bring everyone's attention to the first paragraph, specially you LH and Skyhawk!!!!:

"The format war. It's over. Done. Break out the blue victory hats and Curaçao, right? Wrong. There won't be a Blu-ray victory party. Don't take my word for it? How about Sony Electronics CEO Stan Glasgow's? 'From our perspective, the battle really begins now.' Now that HD DVD is dispatched, the members of Team Blu-ray can start fighting standard-def DVDs, digital downloads, consumer apathy, the Chinese and—of course—each other."

From Sony CEO "... the battle really begins now..."??? Wow it seems that not to long ago I was being accused by LH and Skyhawk of posting "FUD" and "dumb threads" for posting my predictions on the matter one month before a critic did!. (Click here to see the thread in which I was unfairly attacked)

I'm glad YOU are FINALLY seen the light and hopefully you too will start respecting other people's opinion and person. Is ok to disagree, but do it in a respectful manner with valid views and points not by calling names like kindergarten children.

[Post edited by wii-lite on Mar 14, 2008]

I don't know about HDdownloads, but I also dont see Blu lasting in the market as much more than a niche. Much of this is NOT something Blu Ray can actually affect. The economy is in shambles now and when you're looking at, say, $14 for SD of No Country for Old Men or the HD version for $30...most people's brains are working out "well, that savings buys me a few more gallons of gas. I don't really NEED it in HD"

Blu Ray's failure for wide spread adoption may come down to coming along at the wrong time. Yes, this would also apply to HD-DVD, since even though players were cheap, movies were not.

In any case, you have to spend money to make money. Toshiba lost, and now they want to move to something else. They arent forcing you to buy anything....unlike Blu Ray, to be fair, which bought out everyone so you had no choice. But even then they arent "forcing" you to adopt the format. Sony pulls this "developing new technology thats the same as whats out" all the time and nobody crucifies them. Yet somehow Toshiba is the devil incarnate because HD-DVD failed? Talk about tossing the baby out with the bathwater.

Quote:
Here's more about Sony's $1 billion (too) gamble on Blu-ray, and...

From the looks of things (both ECONOMIC & THE UPCOMING PRODUCT from Toshiba)... that gamble is STILL PENDING a payout. That wad o' CASH is still piled up on the poker table, with every player still 'CLAIMING' an ace up their sleeves.

Blu Ray players MUST RETAIL FOR around $150 to win the pockets of the Recession-affected Majority. FAST!

Otherwise, the only place a blu-ray player gets a home, is inside a PS3.

[Post edited by xplaytendo on Mar 14, 2008]

Ok wii-lite, maybe I was a little hasty and too strong that day [your link to a Feb. thread above], but you still included many FUD-based biased comments, and had been starting multiple threads around that time with the same anti Blu-ray message.

Here's your post from that thread again. The darker areas are pure FUD-based speculations - yes I know we are all guilty of this to an extent (including myself), but the HD-DVD only fanboys were very diligent in attacking Blu-ray here on this message board.

And by the way, I've been saying a similar message for months now - that even though Blu-ray is/has won the hi-def disc format war, the real uphill battle (and large mountain to climb) is to become as popular as standard DVD, which is a mammoth challenge, as we both agree.

wii-lite said... (from Feb. - linked above)

Quote:
So it is 99% sure that HD-DVD has lost this HD battle but I think the real war is only about to begin. Now BD has to compete and dethrone the original, the one and only, the DVD. We should not forget that HD-DVD was adopted by the international DVD Forum as the next-generation DVD standard.

Do BD supporters mean to tell me, and expect me to believe, that the International DVD Forum is just going to give up and concede the entertainment industry to Sony and its BD? I think not. We musn't forget that DVD is the current standard going still strong. DVD has over 90,000 [titles] available with at least 5 to 7 new DVD's being release or re-release every week. DVD has the 100% market base in America and the world (high definition owners still have their movies in SD thanks to upconversion) and in the US, according to a study conducted by the NDP consumer group, 70% of people are perfectly content with their DVD and have no intention of going high def.

In the gaming arena, besides the PS3 (obviously), all the other consoles (XBOX 360, Wii, and PS2) use DVD media as well as PC gaming. Heck, even most of the PC games are still CD. Even if Microsoft were to create a BD drive for the XBOX 360, it would be for movie viewing purposes and not for gaming.

In the established BD home base, are the current BD owners honestly happy to know that they have to buy a brand new player in order to have all the features that current HD-DVD owners already have? Do you BD fans realize that once the version 2.0 (or whatever you call it) come out all the studios will make BD disks supporting the version and most likely won't be fully compatible with your current BD players? After all, current owners won't be able to update their firmware to 2.0 for the current BD players won't be compatible with the 2.0 version. So be ready to shell out another $600 or more by the end of the year or whenever 2.0 and the new BD movies comes out.

Reality check! BD is facing an uphill battle versus DVD. If at least half of the current HD-DVD owners think like me, plus all the hundreds of million of happy S-DVD owners around the globe, I know most people will be sticking with S-DVD's thanks to upconverting players and won't make the jump to BD until the real fat lady (the international DVD Forum) sings and stops support and production of S-DVD's.

(END)

-although that last darkened comment might end up being true - LH

Quote:
Hey I still use dialup!!! I use it when I'm in a third world country like Mexico sipping back on Corona's!!!

Yeah, right, specially when they got more 3G coverage than we do...but really, they got way better deals and better service than we do, really, no joke...

"I WANT THE TRUTH!"

Tim - that was inspired

OK, why are we arguing here again? Tell me a company that doesn't lose money with a new product...come on! It's business!

Yes, Toshiba lost the format war, then quit...and lost money, way too much money...

Sony, well, also lost money, but they hope blu-ray will catch on as SD DVD has, in order to recoup money...lots of money... $ $ $ $ $...

The thing is, Toshiba wants to 'go at it again', while we HD DVD consumers were abandoned in the ship, which, wasn't sinking at all...

Quote:
And I really think everyone should adopt TRUE HD - Blu-ray - and don't settle for this possible 'DVD2'/Super-Upconversion.

1. Blu-Ray players cost too much.
2. Blu-Ray players aren't compatible with each other. Blame it on Java.
3. Blu-Ray titles average $10 more than DVD at retail. This is a significant barrier to consumers.

Quote:
Over the next year or so, Blu-ray players will become more affordable

Call me when I can buy a 2.0 Player for $99.

Quote:
Toshiba is beginning to look like a SCAM artist. Like I said before, they want all of the HD DVD supporters to now adopt this DVD2 technology

More like 30 million Xbox 360 users first.

Quote:
The only way I'd buy a DVD2 player is if Toshiba can really prove that the quality matches that of HD-DVD or BD

Super Upconverted DVDs will be very very close to Blu-Ray to most people PQ wise.

Quote:
Even if Microsoft were to create a BD drive for the XBOX 360, it would be for movie viewing purposes and not for gaming.p

1. Microsoft offcially denied Blu-Ray drive for Xbox 360 twice.
2. Former head of Microsoft HD-DVD division is talking about new 0.3 mm high-density red-laser DVD for consoles. Given the close cooperation between Toshiba and Microsoft, I expect a high-density data-only DVD for Xbox 3 to show up.

My 3G/ 1X EVDO wireless card doesn't always work in third world countries. It works great in the US and Canada.

[Post edited by ReaggieP on Mar 14, 2008]

I'm sure some of that money was lost to the paramount payoff. Toshiba didn't exactly have the best ad campaign. Although I hate Sony, the BDA was lucky to have them since they spread the most lies and people actually believe them.

Hey LH, just want to be honestly clear and for the record I'm not against Blu, I'm against Sony as a corporation and their forcing tactics toward consumers. As a matter of fact, if it hadn't being because Sony is directly behind Blu-ray, I'd probably would had gone Blu by now (I was on the fence until Paramount and Dreamworks went HD-DVD exclusive). So please, don't think I'm anti-BD, I'm anti Sony .

As for the bold highlights from my Feb, I'd like to add some comments:

wii-lite said... (from Feb. - linked above)

Quote:

Do BD supporters mean to tell me, and expect me to believe, that the International DVD Forum is just going to give up and concede the entertainment industry to Sony and its BD? I think not.

I think it has been proven that the DVD Forum is not ready to give up since Toshiba and others want to come out with DVD2. 1 point for FUD.

Even if Microsoft were to create a BD drive for the XBOX 360, it would be for movie viewing purposes and not for gaming.

This one is half way there, M$ already said it'll "support BD in ways that make sense" however, the XBOX division won't make (for now) a BD drive for the XBOX. Let's think of it this way: If M$ only made a HD-DVD add-on, what makes people think that M$ will make a BD drive and start making BD based games when M$ main competitor (Sony and the PS3) own the rights for BD? Highly unlikely UNLESS BD beats SD-DVD and trully becomes the next standard for entertainment media.

So be ready to shell out another $600 or more by the end of the year or whenever 2.0 and the new BD movies comes out.

I think that even I was off by a $100, this FUD was right too. Sony unveils $400 and $500 BD-Live players. Another point for FUD.

If at least half of the current HD-DVD owners think like me, plus all the hundreds of million of happy S-DVD owners around the globe, I know most people will be sticking with S-DVD's thanks to upconverting players and won't make the jump to BD until the real fat lady (the international DVD Forum) sings and stops support and production of S-DVD's.

That you actually admitted that most likely will be true too so another point for FUD.

So 3 out of 4 FUD's correct with one pending. Not bad for a "FUD spreader" huh? he he

Well, Toshiba can recoup much of R&D investment by migrating as much HD-DVD tech to DVD as possible. Single DVD can in fact pack 21 GB if it adopted to ETM modulation, narrowest possible track pitch, and triple layering.

That's 21 GB optical DVD drive for less than $20.

Quote:
I think that even I was off by a $100, this FUD was right too. Sony unveils $400 and $500 BD-Live players. Another point for FUD.

Well, $400 is not BD-Live compliant. You need to add your own GB storage.

Quote:
Well, Toshiba can recoup much of R&D investment by migrating as much HD-DVD tech to DVD as possible. Single DVD can in fact pack 21 GB if it adopted to ETM modulation, narrowest possible track pitch, and triple layering.

Dude, give it up. Toshiba couldn't do it with 30GB disks, what makes you think they can take over with 21 GB disks?

And no, in case you're thinking it VHS tapes will never make a big comeback either!

Quote:
Well, $400 is not BD-Live compliant. You need to add your own GB storage.

Thanks for bringing that up, actually based on your comment I just read the entire article and realised those players are actually only Profile 1.1. So if Profile 1.1 will sale at $400 and $500 then we can expect Profile 2.0 to indeed be $600 as I "FUDed", and even perhaps more expensive. Damn Sony, no wonder I hate them. lol

Quote:
And no, in case you're thinking it VHS tapes will never make a big comeback either!

You are right because technically VHS never completely left. You can still buy them at retail stores. (blank ones at least).

Quote:
Thanks for bringing that up, actually based on your comment I just read the entire article and realised those players are actually only Profile 1.1.

Remind me never to have you read anything to me!

From the article:

Quote:
Both players will be Bonus View (aka Profile 1.1) and BD-Live capable, although according to Sony's press release, the BDP-S350 will require a firmware upgrade to enable the player's BD Live functionality.

Quote:
Dude, give it up. Toshiba couldn't do it with 30GB disks, what makes you think they can take over with 21 GB disks?

One word. $20 red-laser DVD drives.

Beats the hell out of $120 Blu-Ray drives, right?

Quote:
Remind me never to have you read anything to me!

I know! That's what happens when I try to sneak on the internet while at work. he he

[Post edited by wii-lite on Mar 14, 2008]

Quote:
One word. $20 red-laser DVD drives.

Where are these? Around here, even the better quality conventional upconverting Oppo players are selling for well over $200.

So these new players with Cell processors that will SUC, along with new laser pickups with the ability to read this new red laser format, and ethernet port for Internet features and ample persistent storage, will debut on the market for a 10th of the price of a conventional upconverting DVD player?

You didn't pull this $20 figure out of your ass did you? Please don't say it's true! YUK! I'll have to go wash my hands AND my keyboard

Quote:
One word. $20 red-laser DVD drives.

Beats the hell out of $120 Blu-Ray drives, right?

Buying a DVD drive over a Blu-ray drive as an add-on to your PC it does make a hell of a lot sense however, that's why Sony is pushing deals with HP, Dell, and others to include the BD drive on personalized computers from the factory and come out with special offers such as: "upgrade the DVD drive to BD for only $50/$100 more" and sometimes even "for free".

Quote:
You didn't pull this $20 figure out of your ass did you? Please don't say it's true! YUK! I'll have to go wash my hands AND my keyboard

Be nice now, actually they are $29.99 at staples but I'm sure you can find them cheaper if you look hard enough.

Quote:
My 3G/ 1X EVDO wireless card doesn't always work in third world countries. It works great in the US and Canada.

I was gona pass that as a 'racist' comment, but dude, really, here in the US where I live, we don't have an IMAX theatre (or at least an actually nice movie theatre), or three story malls with Apple stores...unlike the city in the third world country where I come from...

And, really, is sad that IMAX isn't as available as regular theatres...

Quote:
Be nice now, actually they are $29.99 at staples but I'm sure you can find them cheaper if you look hard enough.

Sorry, I couldn't find any 21 GB red laser players for $29.99 there. Do you have a direct link to this product?

Quote:
(or at least an actually nice movie theatre), or three story malls with Apple stores...unlike the city in the third world country where I come from...

Only 3 story? In our old third world country, they don't build malls with less than 5 with indoor skating rinks and swimming pools!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SM_Mall_of_Asia

And this is a smaller one, in Asian terms:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SM_Megamall

[Post edited by Skyhawk on Mar 14, 2008]

Quote:
Where are these? Around here, even the better quality conventional upconverting Oppo players are selling for well over $200.

So you cannot tell a drive and a player apart.

Quote:
So these new players with Cell processors that will SUC

Not CELL, but SpursEngine : $30 a piece.

Quote:
new laser pickups with the ability to read this new red laser format

Not a new laser pickup, but a same old DVD drive with different firmware.

Quote:
upgrade the DVD drive to BD for only $50/$100 more"

Given that OEMs get DVD burners for $25 and Blu-Ray drive for $120, you are just paying for the cost difference between two.

Quote:
Sorry, I couldn't find any 21 GB red laser players for $29.99 there. Do you have a direct link to this product?

No, those will be built when MS places a 50 million unit order starting from Summer 2011.

Quote:
No, those will be built when MS places a 50 million unit order starting from Summer 2011.

Alrighty, at least even I get the satire now. I guess I take what people say here sometimes way too seriously. I know you would use the wink thingy here, but it doesn't work, so some of us might actually think you weren't joking.

That pic looks wrong poster5...

I'm afraid of third world countries...

[Post edited by mvckalel on Mar 14, 2008]

Quote:
Alrighty, at least even I get the satire now.

It's not a satire.

Basically, we now have rough Xbox Third schedule from Tim Sweeney, the head developer of Unreal Engine series that powers the majority of console games nowadays. According to him, he has infact started working on Unreal Engin 4 for Xbox Third, and he is shooting for a 10-core CPU to be delivered to him by early 2010, and the system itself launches on November 2011.

Accordingly, the optical drive for Xbox Third enters mass production by late spring 2011.

Quote:
There is a long life ahead for Unreal Engine 3. Version 4 will exclusively target the next console generation, Microsoft's successor for the Xbox 360, Sony's successor for the Playstation 3 - and if Nintendo ships a machine with similar hardware specs, then that also. PCs will follow after that.

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/36436/118/1/1/

ten cores you are talking about? available on every system, if not more. He only mentions 360 successor because it will be the first next gen console to be released.

not only that but ps4 is already in the works, with the idea of including 4 cell processors to make the system completely 100% online. slated to be out at the same time as the next xbox.
they are rehauling everything from the programming architecture to the online integration. whats your point?

[Post edited by theprof00 on Mar 14, 2008]

Quote:
ten cores you are talking about?

Well, it won't actually be ten cores, but more like ten theads.

Quote:
available on every system

You don't know what you are talking about. Only Microsoft has implemented a correct parrallel programming model usable by game prorgammers. PS3 is every game developer's worst nightmare come true.

Quote:
He only mentions 360 successor because it will be the first next gen console to be released.

Exactly. The point I am trying to make here is that Microsoft needs an optical drive that could be put into Xbox 3 for $20 in 2011, which excludes Blu-Ray since the drive royalty alone is $30. That leaves Microsoft with three options.

1. HD-DVD-Red. Basically a red-laser version of HD-DVD. 21 GB max.
2. FVD : Taiwanese optical standard able to deliver 15 GB max.
3. VMD : Chinese optical standard able to dleiver 20 GB max.

Why is that Door Man giving me the finger?

Quote:
Exactly. The point I am trying to make here is that Microsoft needs an optical drive that could be put into Xbox 3 for $20 in 2011, which excludes Blu-Ray since the drive royalty alone is $30. That leaves Microsoft with three options.

1. HD-DVD-Red. Basically a red-laser version of HD-DVD. 21 GB max.
2. FVD : Taiwanese optical standard able to deliver 15 GB max.
3. VMD : Chinese optical standard able to dleiver 20 GB max.

They could also use a proprietary disc format.

Quote:
Only Microsoft has implemented a correct parrallel programming model

Are you fox2jk on the highdefdigest forum?

I think its highly likely that Microsoft will use 51GB HD-DVD for the next system. I read somewhere that Microsoft dosn't have to pay any royalties. Microsoft is promoting DLC, they may not even include DVD playback in the next console. I'm sure the next console will play the DVD games but not movies. The Wii uses DVD for games but you can't watch movies, you don't really need to on a game system. A game system should be about games, I don't need a super 1337 media hub.

I'm strongly 'leaning' on DLC, especially given the current markdowns on the xbox 360 consoles. My family members can play the games while I watch the vids. My question is... how big a library of video content do they have NOW (I do know that they offer MUCH MUCH MORE than the PS3) & what RESOLUTION do they offer the content?

I'm not a video collector, so renting a physical platter at a brick 'n mortar store is my last resort. Heck, even my Netflix don't arrive fast enough, w/ my preferred choice of movie still on a LONG WAIT!

Quote:
Are you fox2jk on the highdefdigest forum?

No, I am Deadmeat at highdefdigest. Deadmeat is the only nick I use.

Quote:
I think its highly likely that Microsoft will use 51GB HD-DVD for the next system.

It depends on what's available in 2011 for $20(for the whole drive + license cost). Blu-Ray won't be it. Microsoft doesn't like to spend money on drives, they save money on drive to pay for more RAM and more powerful GPU.

Quote:
I read somewhere that Microsoft dosn't have to pay any royalties.

Yes they do, but the burden is a few dollars per box, not $60 per box.

Microsoft has a cross patent-license with Toshiba so it doesn't pay DVD/HD-DVD royalty to Toshiba. Microsoft owns HDi and VC1, meaning the only major royalty they had to pay to implement HD-DVD on Xbox 360 was MPEG2, H.264, and Dolby, all less than $6.

In all, Microsoft could have integrated HD-DVD playback for the cost of drive + $6 royalty. With Blu-Ray, Microsoft is looking at the cost of drive(twice as high as HD-DVD at any given time) + $60 royalty(No cross license with Sony, Sun, etc). Obviously, this is cost-prohibitive.

FYI - EngadgetHD has a report today confirming the final 2007 loss figure by Toshiba on HD-DVD at $1.12 billion (w/special charges added).

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

If only we had some figures from Sony...oh, those kickbacks...

new reports show that the number lost is closer to the realm of 2 billion US.
http://kotaku.com/369551/toshiba-to-lose-666-million-cue-scary-music