Re: Batman Begins comes to Blu-ray

the "pirates of the caribbean" movies often look terrible at any resolution.

for my money, "harry potter 5", "good night, and good luck.", "the brave one", the "bourne" trilogy, "the italian job", and "face/off" are excellent hd dvd/blu-ray transfers.

Disney/Bruckhiemer, what do you expect!

Do they know anything about film making?

"What you're referring to is the various looks of these films, which reflect "reality" to varying degrees." --Electric_Haggis

Haggis,

There is no way for a home viewer (like me or any other DVD reviewer) to guess what a director's intentions were unless the home viewer also has access in his home to an original print of the film. I try to go to the motion-picture theater at least once a week just to have some memory of what film prints actually look like.

I saw "Batman Begins" three times in the theater: twice in regular form in two different theaters and once again in IMAX. Then I watched it on standard-defintion DVD and twice now on HD DVD. My home HD experience was actually the more pleasing, where I found the picture quality slightly sharper than in a theater.

As for "Black Snake Moan," that glossy look may have been intentional, I don't know. It certainly wasn't realistic, which is all I'm able to report on. However, the BD of "Pirates," which I also saw in a theater, does not look good to me. Certainly not compared to the razor-sharp definition of something like "I, Robot" or the naturalness of "Hot Fuzz."

John

Hey John,
Which "Pirates" movie are you refering to here? (D.M.C. looks fantastic on my set)

Tim,
"Stardust"? Really? (This movie def. had some jaw dropping momments, but on my set, I did see quite a bit of "NOISE" (I will now refer to what I percieved to be "film grain" before as "noise" now. because their is a difference.) and some shots were soft.

Will the Batman Begins BR. have PIP? This is what I enjoyed most about the Hd-dvd.

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[Post edited by bladerunner1 on Jun 1, 2008 - CDT 9:18 PM]

Quote:
(I will now refer to what I percieved to be "film grain" before as "noise" now. because their is a difference.)

You can call it what ever you like when you're speaking to me, I'll know and understand what you're talking about. I don't need it turned into Jimi Love rocket science coffee talk. Film grain, noise . . . all looks and means the same thing to me.

John, I've read many accounts of directors, DOPs, colour graders and FX supervisors being far, far happier with the HD master screened digitally in the DI theatre (and the directly ported Blu-ray release) than the final 35mm release prints, which are often done with high-speed printing, several optical generations down... and often done badly at that.

This would partly explain your experience with Batman Begins appearing sharper at home than on the big screen (Viewing on a 36" TV might also have something to do with it).

It also goes a long way to backing up the notion that, more often than not, the Blu-ray release - provided it's viewed on a correctly calibrated display - stands more of a chance of accurately reflecting the filmmakers' desired look, than most of the lacklustre 35mm prints doing the rounds these days.

Now, if the filmmakers choose an ultra-hi-contrast nuclear look for their vision, or a grainy bleach-bypass undersaturated look, or black and white, or whatever else tuns them on, then so be it. That's their choice and "artistic right". (Personally, I roll my eyes just as often at overly hi-con films as with dodgy theatrical presentations.)

I would agree that Hot Fuzz and I, Robot come closest to the overall "look" that most satisfies me.... but that's just me.

My point is that, for non-DI and telecine-related reasons, Batman Begins is mostly a great looking film that would benefit from another, newer pass through a better telecine with a sharper scanner and less film-weave. I guarantee that even Christopher Nolan and Wally Pfister would agree after seeing the difference this would make! The HDDVD/Blu-ray is good - sometimes very good - but it could be noticably better, especially obvious when viewed on a larger display against films with sharper transfers.


On that note, may I heartily recommend a 1080/24p projector to all who can accommodate one and desires the most accurate image possible. (The new BenQ W5000 is a beauty, once calibrated!) No TV will come close to a decent projector.

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[Post edited by Electric_Haggis on Jun 1, 2008 - CDT 9:02 PM]

Electric_Haggis, I have a 24fps/1080p projector, and I found Batman Begins pretty sweet. What I found great about it was that so many of the scenes would have turned to crap on other movies (there were a lot of darker scenes and scenes where higher dynamic range would have led to choices between blowing whites, risking noise, or losing shadow detail). This presentation was an excellent compromise IMO with the right choices made (at least the way I would have made them). Sure, it wasn't razor sharp, but I appreciated just having most of the detail at least visible - which I can't say for some of those many other "sharp as a tack" films that others prefer.

Same with Stardust. There is nothing really I can say bad about the presentation, and I was one of the first to comment on it here last year. Yes, it's got special lenses, or more likely post-production digital effects that add selective blur, but it's a damn fantasy. I'm sure it's supposed to be like that. At least the blur was as smooth as a baby's ass! And no obvious EE to make it look edgy or hard. With that kind of graduation in so many scenes and to avoid obvious banding on my projector is an amazing achievement IMO.

Hot Fuzz was an amazing transfer. But let's face it, it was "easy" compared to Batman Begins. All that wonderful bright lighting allowed them to take it down a stop or so on many scenes, and have their cake and eat it too.

I Robot floored me. I commented last year when I played the upconverted DVD on my PS3 and loved it. And when the Blu-ray came out, my already hight expectations on how it would compare to the upconverted DVD were exceeded quite amazingly. It sounds sweet too.

I also recommend projection, especially when you can get into it so cheaply today - even at 1080p. At entry prices... it's like "should I get a 42 inch 720 LCD panel TV, or a 130" 1080p/24fps projector?". A no brainer if you have the room and the environment for it IMO.

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[Post edited by Skyhawk on Jun 1, 2008 - CDT 9:28 PM]

Well, the one thing I will say for all the Blus and HDs I've had so far, all of them have their fair share of noise/grain. Some worse than others, but with that Panasonic Plasma I purchased, it is equipped with many manual, custom settings to get around the issues best as possible. I've been able to get my adjustments so good that there is hardly any noise/grain whatsoever -- probably no more than 10% visual grain compared to whatever the standard may be at 100% grain/noise.

However, the only thing I have noticed with having a new hi-def set is it does require a lot of babysitting the settings with each film. On my old SD set, you could adjust for one setting for movies and it was good enough for everything. However, being a lot of these hi-defs can deliver so much detail, you can really see the difference between a good tranfer and a mediocre one. Therefore, I find I need to play with the settings for each film until I get the quality I like. Not that that's a bad thing, and in fact, it's nice to have a set that can be that dynamic with its PQ settings -- meaning even the smallest adjustments can make a huge, visual difference.

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[Post edited by Tim Raynor on Jun 1, 2008 - CDT 9:47 PM]

LOL... ReaggieP said -

Quote:
"Disney/Bruckhiemer, what do you expect!" (Pirates movies etc)

What do I expect? Well, if you've seen any of the amazing Disney Blu-ray discs (include those by producer Bruckheimer), you would realize how foolish the above comment is.

Disney has provided some of the very best Blu-ray image quality to date (including Bruckheimer films), and these immediately come to mind...

All 3 Pirates/Carribean movies
Enemy of the State
Wild Hogs
Deja Vu
The Rock
Con Air
The Prestige
Reign of Fire
Eight Below
Ratatouille
Cars
The Condemned
Glory Road
Meet the Robinsons
Enchanted

_____________
-JIMI McLovin (the Voodoo Child)

UH OH !!! Tim....This would be intervention. Please don't become a "tweaker". I have suffered from this for years...NO GOOD MAN!