Re: Super Upconversion Primer

CKwik... yeah, but if the Toshiba player is "not too expensive" and low-priced, will they make much profit? That's why many here are discussing this.

The problem Toshiba has is... if the price is too high, then people will not buy it and/or keep their cheaper regular 'upconversion' DVD player. But if the price is too low (so as to compete with others), well then does Toshiba make any money, since the parts/chips/etc will certainly cost more than a regular upconversion DVD player. So it's kind of a quandry for the company marketing/pricewise.

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

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But if the price is too low (so as to compete with others), well then does Toshiba make any money,

Toshiba's fine as long as they break even on Super Upconversion DVD player.

The reason for Super Upconversion is to protect DVD movie sales and maintain royalty stream, not to profit from hardware itself.

As long as Super Upconversion prevents Blu-Ray from taking off for the next two years, Blu-Ray will become a niche format like LD and Toshiba wins.

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The BD option requires one to not only buy an expensive player and replace their existing collection...

This isn't true. Blu-ray players offer backwards compatibility with standard DVDs, and will also upconvert (scale/deinterlace) them and output 1080p. There is no requirement to replace your existing SD DVD library. Additionally, one can also keep their standard player. I keep mine in the rack because it's the only way I can enjoy my SACD collection.

Even so, undoubtedly many will replace their favorite SD titles with Blu-rays in order to enjoy them in high definition. But there is no requirement to do so.

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CKwik... yeah, but if the Toshiba player is "not too expensive" and low-priced, will they make much profit? That's why many here are discussing this.

The problem Toshiba has is... if the price is too high, then people will not buy it and/or keep their cheaper regular 'upconversion' DVD player. But if the price is too low (so as to compete with others), well then does Toshiba make any money, since the parts/chips/etc will certainly cost more than a regular upconversion DVD player. So it's kind of a quandry for the company marketing/pricewise.

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

Absolutely. The motivation is there. Technology may or may not be.

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This isn't true. Blu-ray players offer backwards compatibility with standard DVDs, and will also upconvert (scale/deinterlace) them and output 1080p. There is no requirement to replace your existing SD DVD library. Additionally, one can also keep their standard player. I keep mine in the rack because it's the only way I can enjoy my SACD collection.

Even so, undoubtedly many will replace their favorite SD titles with Blu-rays in order to enjoy them in high definition. But there is no requirement to do so.

Yes, they offer BC, but they are currently still expensive. I'm working under condition, which I stated, that this super upconversion is reasonably priced. Of course, it could be released at the same entry levl prices as BD. Who knows. It would be unlikely that Super-Upconversion can compete with BD at the same price levels though. If it were to be used, it would likely be done if and when it could be done at a competetive price.

That said, unless BD's BC includes super-upconversion, it may not be able to match the upconverting quality. Of course, if such a device existed, it could also make for a more expensive BD player (than the current entry level models).

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Yes, they offer BC, but they are currently still expensive. I'm working under condition, which I stated, that this super upconversion is reasonably priced.

Blu-ray players however are currently available, and are currently selling. And I'm sure their price will drop as more CE companies and players enter the market place. I'm also fairly confident that Blu-ray players themselves will improve their upconverting ability with standard DVDs over the next several years.

If (A huge IF here) they can include upconversion within 3 to 5 years within a $200 player as good as a iScan VP50 pro retailing for ever $3,000 today ($3,500 MSRP), they'll be doing pretty darn good. And yes, it may impact the motivation to replace all but the favorite titles with Blu-ray in current standard DVD collections in the future - especially those with smaller screens and/or further seating distances.

But if Toshiba can come up with a way to convert standard DVDs to 1 gazillion pixel 3-D holographic images with full color for $200, it might give Blu-ray a real run for its money! Well that's including 10 free disks of course....

Deadmeat said -

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"The reason for Super Upconversion is to protect DVD movie sales and maintain royalty stream, not to profit from hardware itself.

As long as Super Upconversion prevents Blu-Ray from taking off for the next two years, Blu-Ray will become a niche format like LD and Toshiba wins."

Thanks - I do see your point... that Toshiba's DVD royalty stream would still be maintained indefinitely, or at least still be the #1 (dominant) in any format's SW sales (and DVD patents are primarily controlled by Toshiba). Now I see the thinking behind this. Well, we will see if this plan works (if actually implemented).

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

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Thanks - I do see your point... that Toshiba's DVD royalty stream would still be maintained indefinitely, or at least still be the #1 (dominant) in any format's SW sales (and DVD patents are primarily controlled by Toshiba). Now I see the thinking behind this. Well, we will see if this plan works (if actually implemented).

That's ALL GOOD 'N DANDY for Toshiba - should this Vaporware ACTUALLY DOES what it's suppose to do... but what does Microsoft & Panasonic get out of it- given that these boxes NEED to be inexpensive enough, for the MAJORITY to buy? I can see Microsoft announcing ANOTHER ADD-ON movie player for its 360 (which should be cheaper than the standalone), but how about Panasonic? Will they build competing standalones, as Toshiba themselves?

[Post edited by xplaytendo on Mar 20, 2008]

Hendrix, you may want to do a search on that guy's nick (Deadmeat) on Hidefdigest, as he was banned twice (now perm banned) for doing exactly what he's doing now. He was banned from Avsforum first, and all his posts deleted... but at least HidefDigest only banned him and closed the threads he started so you can read his nonsense. It's pretty hard to be banned permanently by posting on their smack down forum, but obviously at least one person has managed to do it. He started posting here afterwards because he has been banned from every other site on the internet.

In other words, he's not worth a reply and Henning should ban him ASAP. He's only here to make trouble and disrupt the forum for attention by making up things. Seriously, do a search on his nick. This guy is either insane or just a 9 year old out of control. Either way he doesn't deserve the time of day from anyone. Just ignore.

[Post edited by Skyhawk on Mar 20, 2008]

Skyhawk... well, OK - the above^ info is very revealing. So I guess this new tech info is controversial right now, and like xplaytendo said - vaporware. We'll just have to stay tuned.

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

xplaytendo

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what does Microsoft & Panasonic get out of it-

Microsoft : Stops the spread of Java in consumer electronics.
Panasonic : Panasonic holds a substantial patent position in DVD that they would like to protect.

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I can see Microsoft announcing ANOTHER ADD-ON movie player for its 360

Add-on is not needed. A simple firmware update makes Xbox 360s DVD2 compatible.

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Will they build competing standalones, as Toshiba themselves?

That's something we will have to wait and see.

Skyhawk

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Hendrix, you may want to do a search on that guy's nick (Deadmeat) on Hidefdigest, as he was banned twice (now perm banned) for doing exactly what he's doing now.

And do you find what I am doing here a bannable offense?

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He was banned from Avsforum first

Well, the mod made a terrible mistake on that one. Well, some racist Blu-Ray fan asked if I had trouble with Amir Majidimehr since his sounded Arabic, and I said I had no problem with Arabs, but the mod took it as a racist comment since avsforum has zero tolerance policy on racism or something like that and instantly banned me. That ban was hilarious.

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but at least HidefDigest only banned him and closed the threads he started so you can read his nonsense.

Well, they are no different from what I post here, like you said so yourself.

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It's pretty hard to be banned permanently by posting on their smack down forum

Actually it is pretty easy if you become the target of Blu-Ray fans. They will keep reporting everything you post, and it takes just one pro-Blu-Ray mod to decide that banning me is simplier than banning hundreds of Blu-Ray fans.

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In other words, he's not worth a reply and Henning should ban him ASAP.

Well, I am afraid you would be banned before me.

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He's only here to make trouble and disrupt the forum for attention by making up things.

Well, Super Upconverting DVD player as a counter to Blu-Ray is confirmed by Toshiba CEO himself during his interview with WSJ.
DVD2 project is undisputable.

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do a search on his nick.

Yes please do so.

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So I guess this new tech info is controversial right now, and like xplaytendo said - vaporware.

It is not vaporware it has been demonstrated at various trade shows for a year now.