10 Most Historically Inaccurate Movies

Yahoo! has a nice article with the "10 Most Inaccurate Historical Movies" or something like that...

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/10mosthistoricallyinaccurate.html

I like the last one, a lot...

Probably any Oliver Stone film based on history.

Hollywood taking libertys with changing facts -- I'm shocked!

Then again, with as old as some of these so-called facts are, how do we really know they are facts? I mean think about it, how do we really know the Spartans wore bronze? Just because some scollar wrote it in a book doesn't neccessarily make it a fact. Since very old history was so poorly documented, I find that researches of it gather what little information they can find then take their best guess. I'm not saying this about all historical facts, but some things I still question as to how anyone can really know certain cultural findings as facts. I think there is a lot of it where we have taken our best guess and let the History channel present it as fact, IMO.

I'm surprised JFK didn't make the list.

what about any movie by michael moore?

Hey... I like Michael Moore.

And that was a crap list.

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I mean think about it, how do we really know the Spartans wore bronze?

Gosh, don't you go to museums? Archeology is one source of information. Spartan artifacts and excavations revealed that this was an important bronze making/forging center. We get to see their bronze helmets and breastplates and such displayed today for anyone who cares to see them. Here is a helmet:



And here is where they find such items (a Spartan excavation):



Of course, Sparta being in the bronze age at the time probably also had something to do with it.

[Post edited by Skyhawk on Mar 21, 2008]

If you want accurate watch the history channel. They actually had a pretty good show on the true 300, which made the spartans even more bad ass. Honestly who goes to these movies for accuracy?

Meh, I really don't care. What I actually want right now is Katsu Chicken from L & L BBQ.



EDIT: I should point out that the picture of Katsu Chicken may not be historically acurate. After some digs in Hawaii, it has been discovered that native Hawaiian's may have breaded their chicken in bronze.

[Post edited by Tim Raynor on Mar 21, 2008]

HEY!!! No posting pictures of delicious-looking food! Now I'm all hungry!

BTW... I nominate "posters5" for President! Anyone who realizes Michael Moore is full of crap is a leader!

What? You don't believe on the JFK conspiracy or MIchael Moore???????

HORROR! THE HORROR!

I thought you all were open minded and intelligent people, go figure...

WOW! I had never thought of 2001 as being an historical movie.
How do you REALLY know we didn't make it to Jupiter seven years ago?

Veeger went past it long before 2001.

Here's one that's a joke - RED DAWN... so, a few hundred thousand Soviet and Cuban military troops supposedly can invade and partially "take over" a major pro-gun rights large country (USA), with a population of upwards of 300 million people, many of which are fully armed. Along with our own US military forces to overcome. Like I said, the film is a joke. John Milius (Conan the Barbarian, Apocalypse Now screenwriter) here lacked common sense.

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

Yeah, that's what I always thought about Red Dawn. Leave the brain at the door and the movie's not that bad, but looking at it intelligently you realize how stupid it is. I mean, come on, the gangs in L.A. alone have enough fire power to take out legions of enemy soldiers over night. Besides, if Cuba did invade, all we'd have to do is cut off their food supply by taking out all the Mexican food chains.

Michael Moore is certainly biased, but that doesn't make everything he says untrue. Think what you want, but it is a fact that the U.S. has one of the worst health care systems in the western world. Why Americans don't fight for universal health care, I'll never know. Especially considering most countries that do have it don't pay any more in taxes.

Those countries can have universal health care b/c they are free riding on the U.S. innovations which will go bye bye when there is no resources for incentive to research and develop.

The U.S. system is already only 55% private.

To say that we won't pay anymore taxes w/ Universal Healthcare shows how little you know about the U.S. and its Congressman.

No, actually the only reason Americans would pay more in taxes for universal health care, is because Americans spend trillions of dollars on pointless "wars" to appease big oil. Of course Americans will never have universal health care, because pharmaceutical companies run the government along with big oil.

The U.S. is not the only country to make advances in medicine. The only difference is that the U.S. does it to make money, while other countries do it to help people.

http://canadianmedicine.blogspot.com/2007/11/canadas-greatest-medical-research.html

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they are free riding on the U.S. innovations which will go bye bye when there is no resources for incentive to research and develop

Pssst... just because most modern countries get public health care doesn't mean they don't have private companies that engage in research and development (for profit).

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Why Americans don't fight for universal health care, I'll never know. Especially considering most countries that do have it don't pay any more in taxes.

I don't know if you noticed, but Americans are not really the revolting type. At least not this generation. They always seem to be pretty happy with the status quo. Well, at least on the surface.
On the other hand, if this was Europe (I'm from there originally) people wouldn't think twice about taking to the streets and letting their government know that they're fed up with their current situation.

[Post edited by gvortex7 on Mar 21, 2008]

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The U.S. system is already only 55% private.

To say that we won't pay anymore taxes w/ Universal Healthcare shows how little you know about the U.S. and its Congressman.

That is a very skewed statistic, because a large percentage of the remaining 45% goes to ineffective programs like Medicaid, which only help people who are medically "eligible" - meaning people who aren't likely to need much care, or financially eligible, which again does not account for all of those who can not afford private insurance. Americans are content with the fact that 25% of lower income families are eligible to receive assitance from Medicaid, while the rest can fend for themselves or die.

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On the other hand, if this was Europe (I'm from there originally) people wouldn't think twice about taking to the streets and letting their government know that they're fed up with their current situation.

Right you are, gvortex. A lot of that is due to the American propaganda machine, that is constantly telling everyone to accept the fact that all the government cares about is the "freedom" of its citizens. How exactly does the Iraq mission affect the freedom of Americans? How much more free are Iraqis now? Too many people are willing to accept whatever the government and media says, and not look for the real truth. Maybe you should take Michael Moore a little more seriously. His movies may be seriously flawed, but there is truth there that Americans are just afraid to believe.

[Post edited by interplanetaryspy on Mar 21, 2008]

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I don't know if you noticed, but Americans are not really the revolting type. At least not this generation. They always seem to be pretty happy with the status quo. Well, at least on the surface.

I donno about that. I've lived in both the US and Canada, and I'll tell you that apathy is pretty much part of the culture up here. Like a "Save Darfur" protest on Parliament Hill consists of 3 women holding signs. One guy did camp there on the hill in a tent for months to protest for more low income housing. No anti-war rallies up here in Canada - in fact every second car has a "Support Our Troops!" ribbon sticker on it.

Compare that to all those ongoing anti-war rallies in the US, and all those Latinos hitting the streets for immigration reform. Heck, they even have sit-ins to save buildings from being torn down!

Im not saying that the US healthcare system doesn't need to be fixed, it clearly does. I just don't think universal healthcare is the answer, you guys probably have other experiences that may say otherwise.

Last 11 years 14 americans have won the nobel prize in medicine, 4 to foreigners working in the US, compared to only 7 outside the US. Coincidence?

In a 2001 poll of the 6 most important innovations in the last 25 years, 4 were developed in american hospitals or private companies (CT scan, ACE inhibitors, statins that lower cholesterol level, and coronary artery bypass grafts) The other 2 were balloon angioplasty (developed in Europe) and mammography (developed in Germany than improved in America).

So either our private system is good for innovation or we are just that much better than the world. Which is it?

Of course we did give the world McDonald's, KFC, and Starbucks so it probably evens out.

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So either our private system is good for innovation or we are just that much better than the world. Which is it?

Taking out a 5 year old's infected tonsils without charging their family isn't going to affect private or public research. And much of the ground breaking innovations were publicly funded in the USA, much in the form of research grants. The everyday practice of medicine has nothing to do with innovation or research itself. Most treatment doctor's offices and "regular folk" hospitals in the USA don't even do research of any type. And again, listen carefully: The existence of universal health care for the treatment of the public has nothing to do with the private companies, universities, and other research vehicles that yes - compete with each other and with other such companies across the world.

My sister works for one of the many bio-research firms in Canada that aims to find new cancer treatments. The company she works for is EXTREMELY well funded, and NOT by the government.

Obviously the USA has performed the bulk of the research - it's got the GDP, 300 million population, and has historically attracted the best foreign researchers from all over the world. The US also has the most Olympic Gold medals too - but I doubt we can connect that with the lack of universal health care!

How long does a person have to wait in Canada to get their tonsils out? (not being a smart ass just curious)

Skyhawk, it is interesting that we are prouder of our gold medals rather than our nobel prizes.

P.S. so we are just that much better than the world, thx for clarifying.

[Post edited by richiro33 on Mar 21, 2008]

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The US also has the most Olympic Gold medals too - but I doubt we can connect that with the lack of universal health care!

That line is classic.

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How long does a person have to wait in Canada to get their tonsils out?

A heck of a lot faster than some poor smuck stuck with an HMO plan! (I know, I was one of those smucks)

In all seriousness, because tonsillitis is an acute inflammatory condition and can be dangerous, but solved with a simple, quick procedure, there is no real wait time. Same with a person walking into the emergency room with appendicitis. They don't even wait in emergency, but get bumped ahead of everyone else and immediately wheeled away to prep.

Generally the things you have to really wait a long time for in Canada are certain diagnostics for non-acute conditions deemed not to be an immediate threat to life (they're often wrong about the threat part to be honest), and elective surgeries.

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P.S. so we are just that much better than the world, thx for clarifying.

Well, at least the US has a lower infant mortality rate than most third world countries. So better than most of the third world anyway

[Post edited by Skyhawk on Mar 21, 2008]

Ok well I think we have flamed this thread enough. Thanks for the info and the banter skyhawk.

"I don't know if you noticed, but Americans are not really the revolting type." --gvortex7

I dunno. I've met some pretty revolting characters in my life.

Count de Monet: "It's said the peasants are revolting."
King Louis XVI: "You said it. They stink on ice!" --Mel Brooks, "History of the World, Part I"

John

Umm, I'd like to point out that a big reason that many American's don't protest and rally our government establishments is because most of us don't have the time. The working class in the US is the most over-worked nation in the world, and big business here has made sure that the demands for long hours are only compensated with wages that barely keep us afloat. For many people, to take a few days off with no pay to go protest can lead to financial difficulties later in the month, and sometimes the effect can last several months as we try to play catch-up. Most American's live by the skin of their teeth from month to month, so taking time out to fight for a cause is simply out of the question because every dime counts.

Take where I work for example, I'm on a salary that is paid for a 40-hour week. However, the responsabilites and demands of my job outweigh the expected hours -- therefore I end up working 50 to 60 hour weeks, but that's what sucks about salary as they have you by the balls 24/7. Sure, stress is a huge health issue in the US and has been linked to several illnesses, but with the pressure and demands most of us face in the work force it's no wonder stress is a concern. Our work demands and long hours over the years have made it difficult for us to find time for family, friends, self and protesting.

As far as our health care system, there are many things that need to change within before we even consider universal care. For starters, we need to get the insurance companies to stop deciding what's best for us and give that responsibility back to our doctors. Insurance companies have far too much power over our doctors and limit us to what they only will cover. Next, the drug companies should never be allowed to tell our doctors which drugs to push. If you don't think this happens, let me give you a little story. My uncle Richard went to his family doctor he's been going to for the past 20-years. He had a problem with Acid Reflux and his doc was going to perscribe him Nexium. My uncle's insurance wouldn't cover that particular perscription and he told his doctor he wasn't about to shell out $100 a month for nasty heartburn. He got his doctor to confess that he is required by the drug company to perscribe Nexium, and he admitted his practice gets a kickback for pushing the drug. He then told my uncle that you can get the same exact results that Nexium gives by taking two, over the counter, Prilosec's daily. As you can see, big business should have no business telling our doctors how we should be cared for. Until we can change these issues, universal healthcare in the US is going to be a long, long battle. It's a sad time when you realize you can't even trust your own doctor because some idiots want to fatten their pockets by telling our doctors what diagnosis to deliver. IMO, insurance and drug companies should never be allowed to have any kind of control or power over our family practices.

EDIT: As far as M. Moore goes, I don't think he's full of shit, but he can be bias. However, at least he's addressing issues that we should all be concerned with whether you agree with him or not. I praise the guy for at least making us "think" rather than being blinded by the bias opinon of the news media night after night. And no, I'm not in love with the guy but I do respect that he at least has the guts to deliver information that hopefully gets people off their asses and contribute with the changes needed.

Mr. All Serious!

[Post edited by Tim Raynor on Mar 22, 2008]

tim is da man

Tim:

Best post ever!!

You can argue American innovations until the cows come home, and because the U.S. is so far from universal health care, as Tim said, there are numerous things that need to be fixed first in order to get within striking distance of it. Until someone in government is willing to stand up against pharmaceutical corporations, nothing will change. The fact is, U.S. is the only developed, "civilized" country that charges their citizens for the right to live.

Bottom line is this: When health care in America stops being a business and a great money making scheme for doctors, insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies and gets back to square one which is the actual caring for the well being of the general public, then you know we'll be heading in the right direction.

[Post edited by gvortex7 on Mar 22, 2008]

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No anti-war rallies up here in Canada - in fact every second car has a "Support Our Troops!" ribbon sticker on it.

When that debate was at its peak (and, at least in my area, it was a big debate), the pro-ribbon sentiment was too right-wing American for comfort.

I don't mind when movies about ancient history are a little fast with the historical accuracy. I mean let's face it, the minute a Roman soldier says something in English and not Latin it's historically inaccurate.

I have more of a problem, with more recent history being screwed up. I just got Untouchables on HD-DVD yesterday and I was watching it again for the first time in years. I'm pretty sure in everything I've ever read about that time. That Elliot Ness never threw a suspect of the court house roof to his death.

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The fact is, U.S. is the only developed, "civilized" country that charges their citizens for the right to live.

Agreed, but even in a free medical society they pay for it through their taxes. However, coming from taxes you don’t think or notice the expense as much because you no longer see a giant, heart stopping doctors bill. I feel the fact that the US medical system is run like a big business makes me sick! IMO, medical should be treated just like any vital human service in this country, much like Police and Firemen.

Nevertheless, I should point out that there are actually communities where I live that require you to pay for your own Fire Department. So, say you didn’t pay your dues -- the Fire Department will come out to a call and watch your house burn to the ground. This has already happened to a family in Gilbert, AZ. The family got out of the house ok, but since the family didn’t contribute to their neighborhood Fire Department, the Firemen just stood their and did nothing. The story even made our local TV news. It just sickens me that that could happen in this country.

What’s next, Police?! Could you imagine making a call to the Police, “Hey, someone’s breaking into my home!”, Police Dept. – “Sorry Mr. Raynor, but you didn’t pay your due fees, so you’re on your own!” The way this country is going, it wouldn’t surprise me that could happen.

[Post edited by Tim Raynor on Mar 22, 2008]

To be fair Tim the cops were probably going to do that do you anyway.

Actually Tim where I live things like this are already happening with the Police. The local cops refuse to go into the poor neighborhoods because A. It's too dangerous and B. most of those people are so poor they aren't paying taxes to they figure there's no rush to help them. I didn't realize this until I was visiting a friend who lives on the outskirts of one of these neighborhoods, and my car got broken into. I called 911 and I was told on the phone, that they would NOT be sending out a police officer to take my report.

I thought this post was about Historically Inaccurate Movies? LOL

They just have to do an accurate portrayal of the My Lai Massacre - from the soldiers gearing up for the invasion - to the 3 Soldier's Medals awarded - to the emotional visit those 2 surviving soldiers had with the few My Lai survivors. I don't mean that crappy "investigative" film that Oliver Stone was going to do staring Bruce Willis. Is the history so hard to bare that Hollywood wont touch it the way it should? And hold back no gore - show those women lined up holding their babies while they all get killed, and how 3 crazy American soldiers flew that helicopter between the few left running away and the hundreds of Americans shooting at them.

And they should pick characters from both "sides" to develop before the invasion occurred: a few villagers (including one or two that the soldiers meet later in the film), along with the characters of the soldiers themselves - those 3 especially, but also the characters and demoralization of what war does to a weaker personality. No holds barred. Show it the way it was, and if the religious right and patriotic extremists don't like it, too freakin' bad. No taming this one down.

Edit: BTW, here's the BBC story of the guys getting their medals. They could make this pretty emotional - so many years later in their old age only then were they recognized:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1998/03/98/mylai/62924.stm

Man, what a movie they could make with all that.

[Post edited by Skyhawk on Mar 22, 2008]

That's how threads get to more than 20 pages, lol...

Still, Michael Moore does what most don't, and he gets bashed for it...remember, FACTS, not TRUTH...

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Agreed, but even in a free medical society they pay for it through their taxes. However, coming from taxes you don’t think or notice the expense as much because you no longer see a giant, heart stopping doctors bill.

True, and not true. My wife is actually on a forum on another site for expectant mothers, and they were talking about the bills they have to pay to have a baby in a U.S. hospital. The American women also made the claim, "You have to pay more taxes.". When they compared pay stubs for what would be the same tax bracket, my wife actually paid less taxes. We just don't pay crazy taxes for some of the things that you do - like a never-ending war.

When I lived in Portland, my wife and I had Kaiser as our health provider. For an HMO, they were not to shabby. I've heard a few horror storys about Kaiser, but I can't think of another health provider I haven't heard a horror story about. The way I see it, my wife and I had our daughter for $10, so I really have nothing to complain about and I have to admit I miss not having Kaiser anymore, as they are not here in Arizona.

Wow, sounds like a much better HMO plan than I had Tim when I lived in Jax. They had like 3 specialists of each category that we were allowed to choose from, and EVERY visit had a $10 minimum fee. I even had to wait 6 weeks just to see a freakin' dermatologist because of this cyst I had, and once they determined it was just a cyst and benign, the HMO wouldn't cover it. Fine.

So I had it removed once I moved back to Canada about 3 years later for free... 5 day wait from referral at a walk-in clinic to actual surgery. I kid you not. Don't even get me going about HMOs, from my crappy experience!

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Don't even get me going about HMOs, from my crappy experience!

Yep, like I said, I've heard many horror storys about HMOs. I guess I've been lucky all this time and have never had much to complain about, but the way things are going in this country, I have no doubt my bad experience will eventually happen.