Re: 10 Most Historically Inaccurate Movies

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The U.S. system is already only 55% private.

To say that we won't pay anymore taxes w/ Universal Healthcare shows how little you know about the U.S. and its Congressman.

That is a very skewed statistic, because a large percentage of the remaining 45% goes to ineffective programs like Medicaid, which only help people who are medically "eligible" - meaning people who aren't likely to need much care, or financially eligible, which again does not account for all of those who can not afford private insurance. Americans are content with the fact that 25% of lower income families are eligible to receive assitance from Medicaid, while the rest can fend for themselves or die.

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On the other hand, if this was Europe (I'm from there originally) people wouldn't think twice about taking to the streets and letting their government know that they're fed up with their current situation.

Right you are, gvortex. A lot of that is due to the American propaganda machine, that is constantly telling everyone to accept the fact that all the government cares about is the "freedom" of its citizens. How exactly does the Iraq mission affect the freedom of Americans? How much more free are Iraqis now? Too many people are willing to accept whatever the government and media says, and not look for the real truth. Maybe you should take Michael Moore a little more seriously. His movies may be seriously flawed, but there is truth there that Americans are just afraid to believe.

[Post edited by interplanetaryspy on Mar 21, 2008]

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I don't know if you noticed, but Americans are not really the revolting type. At least not this generation. They always seem to be pretty happy with the status quo. Well, at least on the surface.

I donno about that. I've lived in both the US and Canada, and I'll tell you that apathy is pretty much part of the culture up here. Like a "Save Darfur" protest on Parliament Hill consists of 3 women holding signs. One guy did camp there on the hill in a tent for months to protest for more low income housing. No anti-war rallies up here in Canada - in fact every second car has a "Support Our Troops!" ribbon sticker on it.

Compare that to all those ongoing anti-war rallies in the US, and all those Latinos hitting the streets for immigration reform. Heck, they even have sit-ins to save buildings from being torn down!

Im not saying that the US healthcare system doesn't need to be fixed, it clearly does. I just don't think universal healthcare is the answer, you guys probably have other experiences that may say otherwise.

Last 11 years 14 americans have won the nobel prize in medicine, 4 to foreigners working in the US, compared to only 7 outside the US. Coincidence?

In a 2001 poll of the 6 most important innovations in the last 25 years, 4 were developed in american hospitals or private companies (CT scan, ACE inhibitors, statins that lower cholesterol level, and coronary artery bypass grafts) The other 2 were balloon angioplasty (developed in Europe) and mammography (developed in Germany than improved in America).

So either our private system is good for innovation or we are just that much better than the world. Which is it?

Of course we did give the world McDonald's, KFC, and Starbucks so it probably evens out.

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So either our private system is good for innovation or we are just that much better than the world. Which is it?

Taking out a 5 year old's infected tonsils without charging their family isn't going to affect private or public research. And much of the ground breaking innovations were publicly funded in the USA, much in the form of research grants. The everyday practice of medicine has nothing to do with innovation or research itself. Most treatment doctor's offices and "regular folk" hospitals in the USA don't even do research of any type. And again, listen carefully: The existence of universal health care for the treatment of the public has nothing to do with the private companies, universities, and other research vehicles that yes - compete with each other and with other such companies across the world.

My sister works for one of the many bio-research firms in Canada that aims to find new cancer treatments. The company she works for is EXTREMELY well funded, and NOT by the government.

Obviously the USA has performed the bulk of the research - it's got the GDP, 300 million population, and has historically attracted the best foreign researchers from all over the world. The US also has the most Olympic Gold medals too - but I doubt we can connect that with the lack of universal health care!

How long does a person have to wait in Canada to get their tonsils out? (not being a smart ass just curious)

Skyhawk, it is interesting that we are prouder of our gold medals rather than our nobel prizes.

P.S. so we are just that much better than the world, thx for clarifying.

[Post edited by richiro33 on Mar 21, 2008]

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The US also has the most Olympic Gold medals too - but I doubt we can connect that with the lack of universal health care!

That line is classic.

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How long does a person have to wait in Canada to get their tonsils out?

A heck of a lot faster than some poor smuck stuck with an HMO plan! (I know, I was one of those smucks)

In all seriousness, because tonsillitis is an acute inflammatory condition and can be dangerous, but solved with a simple, quick procedure, there is no real wait time. Same with a person walking into the emergency room with appendicitis. They don't even wait in emergency, but get bumped ahead of everyone else and immediately wheeled away to prep.

Generally the things you have to really wait a long time for in Canada are certain diagnostics for non-acute conditions deemed not to be an immediate threat to life (they're often wrong about the threat part to be honest), and elective surgeries.

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P.S. so we are just that much better than the world, thx for clarifying.

Well, at least the US has a lower infant mortality rate than most third world countries. So better than most of the third world anyway

[Post edited by Skyhawk on Mar 21, 2008]

Ok well I think we have flamed this thread enough. Thanks for the info and the banter skyhawk.

"I don't know if you noticed, but Americans are not really the revolting type." --gvortex7

I dunno. I've met some pretty revolting characters in my life.

Count de Monet: "It's said the peasants are revolting."
King Louis XVI: "You said it. They stink on ice!" --Mel Brooks, "History of the World, Part I"

John