Playstation 3: Not the best Blu-ray player you can buy

You know what's weird.....I use my PS3 at home on a 23" LCD TV and the picture quality is great. No problems, no glitching up, no stuttering. I take my PS3 to my dad's one weekend to test out his new plasma screen and I start noticing all kinds of crap on the image and stuttering. There was tons of jagged edges and it just looked really bad. I thought it was my dad's TV but after reading this, I guess it is the PS3. But since I only have a small TV in my room and I rarely see glitching on mine, I'll keep my PS3 until I get a bigger TV. Thanks for the report.

I have not had ANY problems yet...

and my PS3 is hooked up to my 60" Pioneer KURO...

Thanks for the info Henning.

As a consumer that will get into the bluray market eventually, I'm glad to be waiting it out and see what the reviews say (not to mention price drops).

It looks like I'll be waiting for the Panasonic DMP BD50 coming out soon. If the reviews are good after a few months I'll seriously look at it.

I'm so happy I got the Panasonic!

Quote:
The reason they gave: "Increasingly, the Blu-ray performance of the PS3 doesn't really stand up to videophile scrutiny.

I'm not a 'videophile' geek by any means, but I know what I want in hi-def clarity. I've been satisfied with my 'viewing' in front of my 46-inch Samsung 1080p, playing blu-ray via PS3. This 'scrutiny' is a MATTER OF PERCEPTION vastly different for every person.

By far... STILL the best BANG for the BUCK.
My perception.

[Post edited by xplaytendo on Mar 25, 2008]

Quote:
By far... STILL the best BANG for the BUCK.
My perception.

AGREED!

That's the thing though, it's inconsistent. PlayStation 3 might work perfectly for you guys, and that's great. But if other owners are reporting these kinds of problems, I think it's good that consumers are aware that these kinds of problems exist.

Quote:
PlayStation 3 might work perfectly for you guys, and that's great. But if other owners are reporting these kinds of problems, I think it's good that consumers are aware that these kinds of problems exist.

Agreed.

I agree too. Evidently the Panny is not without its own problems. CNET has posts/opinions from numerous consumers complaining about compatibility issues with Sammy displays...

Just sayin'...

Samsung displays are problematic for some reason. Mostly due to HDMI issues.

Quote:
Samsung displays are problematic for some reason. Mostly due to HDMI issues.

All the more reason to not have a Sammy display...that just flat out sucks!

I've not ever experienced frame "stuttering" or dropped frames, nor any kind of weird artifacts with my PS3 on a 130" wide screen. But then again, my PS3 probably doesn't have to do very much because it's set to output 1080p/24 - just native to what's on the disk and nothing fancy (not even scaling or interlacing). So I guess you might say it's set on "lazy mode"?

lol.

even tough only happening to some. this is worth the mention. even if people arent video freaks, is good the info is out there.

because of form factor, me no playing games, hd codecs, no built in ir capability and other reasons henning mentioned, i already have a buyer for my ps3... now if i can just find a bd30 for under 400, or atleast a retail deal with some freebies. even if i later buy the bd50 and move mr30 the the bedroom.

to write a bull crap article on how the PS3 is not a great Blu Ray player. What planet did you jump off of? You might need a better HDMI cord, stuttering usually is associated with a bad connection or cable. Here is all you need to know.....
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/features/2104/sound-vision-2006-editors-choice-awards-page8.html

Henning's article said...

Quote:
The reason they gave: "Increasingly, the Blu-ray performance of the PS3 doesn't really stand up to videophile scrutiny. While its excellent clarity and fine detail reproduction is without question, motion is not the console's strongest point. Fast panning shots in Sony's own flagship 'Casino Royale,' are prone to stutter, whereas the company's own dedicated players render the same scenes perfectly. It is also prone to visual artifacts not seen on the latest dedicated players."

Do you realize how speculative these statements are? I would ask what type of display is being used, what type of signal is being output from the PS3, etc. Could the disc be poorly authored?

FYI - My PS3 outputs Blu-rays at 1080p/24 into my Pioneer KURO Plasma, and under the plasma's Pure Cinema mode I have it set to the "Advance" mode (24fps converted to a 24-multiple, or 72hz)... result is NO UNNATURAL JUDDER, STUTTER, etc. As for Casino Royale, I've previously experimented with also sending 1080i/60, 1080p/60 and still no visual distortions on my Kuro plasma.

By the way, the editor of Widescreen Review, in the latest issue states that the PS3 is the best overall Blu-ray player, with the Panasonic BD30 second.

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

[Post edited by Love Hendrix! on Mar 25, 2008]

Quote:
to write a bull crap article on how the PS3 is not a great Blu Ray player. What planet did you jump off of? You might need a better HDMI cord, stuttering usually is associated with a bad connection or cable.

You'd think that Home Cinema Choice Magazine wouldn't have a clue about these things? The author mentions stuttering and artifacts not found in SA players, and I would expect they are smart enough to use similar quality (if not identical) cables when comparing the PS3 to SA units. If this is true, then this reaffirms the argument that the PS3 has to have cheaper components in order to compete with SA players, being that it's also a game console. The durability of the components is still mostly up in the air.

I don't think that the purpose of the article was to upset PS3 owners, but to inform potential BR buyers about the shortcomings of the PS3. The system still has the potential to shine with great games, but as a dedicated BR player, I'd have to personally disregard it. I applaud the author for being honest to consumers.

I agree with HD Fanatic. They must know what they're doing and I'm glad they're sharing the info. I doubt very much the intent of this article is to spread misinformation or malice towards the PS3. Maybe they have a bad console, or maybe their findings are correct.

We'll know soon enough.

Quote:
Do you realize how speculative these statements are? I would ask what type of display is being used, what type of signal is being output from the PS3, etc. Could the disc be poorly authored?

FYI - My PS3 is outputs Blu-rays at 1080p/24 into my Pioneer KURO Plasma, and under the plasma's Pure Cinema mode I have it set to the "Advance" mode (24fps converted to a 24-multiple, or 72hz)... result is NO JUDDER, STUTTER, etc. As for Casino Royale, I've previously experimented with also sending 1080i/60, 1080p/60 and still no visual distortions on my Kuro plasma.

Great post, LH.

I stated earlier that I have yet to see ANY problems on my 60" Pioneer KURO. As my dedicated BD player, the PS3 excels.

Quote:
The author mentions stuttering and artifacts not found in SA players, and I would expect they are smart enough to use similar quality (if not identical) cables when comparing the PS3 to SA units. If this is true, then this reaffirms the argument that the PS3 has to have cheaper components in order to compete with SA players, being that it's also a game console.

Oh that's just a silly conclusion (your reaffirmation). Additionally, people are using PS3s to drive home theater systems neither you nor myself could ever afford and many are professional installers and IFS engineers that frequent the high-end projector and "Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)" sections at AVSForum. You can believe that if stuttering and artifacts were a problem with Blu-ray playback, it would be the talk of every PS3 home theater user there. But it isn't.

In other words, take every article you see with a BIG grain of salt.

[Post edited by Skyhawk on Mar 25, 2008]

It's ISF Engineers. Anyways, I'll wait for the Panasonic DMP BD50.

Skyhawk, I don't plan to buy a PS3 for BR playback, EVER. This article did not convince me to not purchase a PS3 - my mind was already made up. Considering all of the capabilities of the PS3, it's still an exceptional value if you plan on playing games on it.

same here. Im just saying thats what opinions and articles are, different info from different people.

Just love how L.H always comes out of the gate fighting for blu all the time. dude always thefending even the smallest comments

Good Lord, who saw this coming? More negative Blu-ray spin now that the PS3 has gone Profile 2.0? From dvdtown? NO..... I can't believe it. lol

This just clearly shows the inferiority product known as Blu Ray. HD DVD never had one problem that Blu Ray continues to have over and over. Never once did HDDVD alienate its customers nor did they ever have to do any form of recalls.

Just goes to show you the power of marketing dollars.

[Post edited by imgreenlantern2 on Mar 25, 2008]

kucoloco... I'm sure Blu-ray SA player improvements are ongoing, and can surpass the PS3. But has it actually happened yet? Panasonic may well be the best soon, with the pending BD50 model (and their added tech touches). But concerning this news post here on DVDTOWN...

-What signal is being output from the PS3 - interlaced, progressive 60, or progressive 24?

-What kind of display is being used for viewing? and how good is it's processing? does it have a special input for the advance 1080p/24 output that the PS3 is capable of sending?

-What variety of disc content is being used to make the judgment? Just Casino Royale? what about other Blu-rays, with reference quality, like Pirates/Carribean 2, Cars, etc.

Details should be supplied, otherwise the opinions cannot be evaluated. I remember that many here have erroneously referred to their TVs as "1080i models", when, unless you actually own an Hitachi plasma (or a CRTube set from other manufacturers), that have a 'native' 1080i resolution, then ACTUALLY your set is really a progressive model (the most common) and is NOT "1080i", but rather all signals are converted to one of three resolutions - 720p/60, 768p/60, or 1080p/60.

And I could talk a lot (again) about ACCURATE DEINTERLACING of film-based interlaced signals (1080i), but many here would gripe at me, since I've done it several times previously, even though most HDTVs to date have not been capable of correctly deinterlacing 1080i film signals (although more are doing it right these days), and that's why you should send progressive signals from your disc players to your TV display. Poor deinterlacing means a softer, less-resolution picture.

The point I'm making is, unless we know the exact details concerning the opinion that Henning is referencing in the magazine article, it's actually MISLEADING to imply that the PS3 is not a great quality Blu-ray player. I don't regret buying mine last year in the early summer (although today there are certainly more choices available, and more to come this summer), and cannot see or agree with the 'stutter' etc artifacts that the article implies is happening.

With such a large number of owners - almost 11 million PS3's sold worldwide to date - I think the magazine has a responsibility to be very careful with their reporting. I would not be inclined to accept the opinion of one magazine, and would need to see others confirmation the mag's opinion in related tests, and make them known to the public. I don't think it will happen, as why hasn't any of the other many published reviews over the last year or so documented the same?

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

I still haven't given up on HD DVD. I still buy them, and CH DVD is coming two months from now. Studio Canal has just listed over 100 titles to be released on HD DVD in Europe. Where's the Scotsman when you need him. I was speaking to a friend in Blockbuster management. They just got the release list. Not that BB is going to be doing anything over here anyways but, the release chart is out. Weird, now I'm sounding like a fanboy again. Anyways John or Henning, are you aware of this list? I Know HD DVD is dead but, this was a fun post LOL. Sorry TIM...

ReaggieP said -

Quote:
"Studio Canal has just listed over 100 titles to be released on HD DVD in Europe."

Really? Very surprised to hear this. Can you provide a link to the info, or list of 100 more forthcoming HD-DVD titles?

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

"Studio Canal has just listed over 100 titles to be released on HD DVD in Europe."

Yes, i have heard this too from a shop that i buy my Blu/HD movies from...

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I don't think it will happen, as why hasn't any of the other many published reviews over the last year or so documented the same?

Exactly Hendrix. I don't see the huge wave of sophisticated home theater enthusiasts complaining about these PS3 playback problems either, so I wonder about the following in Henning's article:

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However, many say that the picture quality of the unit is not at par with its stand-alone competition.

Who are these "many", and can we have links? Even to HD DVD fanboy blogs if nothing more credible?

Quote:

This is not the first time I have heard this in direct comparison tests

OK, how about a link to the first time, and the second time, and the third????

Like I said, if the PS3 was dropping frames (heavens!) or displaying these unidentified and undescribed "artifacts", wouldn't at least some enthusiasts on the AVSForum have noticed, then a consensus reached? Many there are pretty nit-picky, and like I said have much better setups than I'd ever hope to have.

All I can say is that I'm sorry to DVDTown that Blu-ray won, and Sony happens to make the PS3. But it's something that has to be accepted without the continuing FUD. I'm giving this site another 2 months to finish grieving, and after that I may cry myself if it doesn't stop.

Skyhawk, what the hell are you talking about??

Henning posted information he saw in Home Cinema Choice Magazine. He is not writing this stuff up for jokes or creating it out of thin air. You jump down peoples throats when they defend HD DVD and now a magazine writes an article in a negative way about the PS3 and you're bashing Henning?

Come on man snap out of it. Henning himself wrote the following...

Many people (including myself) consider it one of the best Blu-ray options right now, perhaps only topped by the just-released Panasonic DMP BD30.

Lastly, my comments should in no way be seen as an attack on the Playstation 3. I'm only trying to keep you all in the know and give you valuable information before upgrading to Blu-ray playback.

What else do you want? You are WAY too defensive when it comes to bluray. YOU need to let it go.

[Post edited by Falcon01 on Mar 25, 2008]

Quote:
Henning posted information he saw in Home Cinema Choice Magazine.

No, actually the quotes I posted were from Henning himself, not from the "Home Cinema Choice Magazine" (whatever UK opinion piece that was in it).

Are you saying it's wrong to ask such questions?

Good GOD man, can't you see that the owner(s) of this site scour the net looking for opinion pieces to post as news if it puts Blu-ray or Sony or the PS3 in some sort of bad light? You can't tell me that the original article was some objective scientific quantification of the PS3's Blu-ray playback capabilities compared to standalone players, can you? Dropped frames in "Fast Motion"? Come on, even you know that regardless of how fast the motion is, the frames are exactly 24 frames per second, even for still images! That alone should call out the BS. GET REAL!

And even if ONE, and I do mean ONE frame was ever dropped in a movie, or if visible "who knows what artifacts " were shown, it would be the buzz of the Internet the first week the PS3 was released - especially on the AVSForum. Every other site and those who have compared the PS3 generally hold it very high in playback quality without any of the problems identified by Henning and this article.

Believe what you want. But as I said, take this with a BIG grain of salt and do *real* research, instead of one person's obvious bias opinion, along with some opinion piece in some UK magazine.

[Post edited by Skyhawk on Mar 25, 2008]

Well let's just see what he says and no it's not wrong to ask.

I know from personal experience I have talked to people (sales reps, agents, friends, etc) about electronics and the stuff we talked about I cannot post links to because it was obviously through conversation. People can't post links to everything they hear or talk about I guess is what I'm saying.

Anyway you came off a little on the attack which I thought was uncalled for but yeah...let's just see what he says.

EDIT: I'm not saying that article is correct by any means. If it IS an issue I'm glad to know about it as I would with an issue regarding ANY hidef player, receiver, hidef disks, hidef audio, etc. Admittedly this is the first time I have personally heard about picture quality issues with a PS3 and I have always said it's a great machine. Let's see if that magazine gets bombarded with email regarding the article and does a follow up to it.

[Post edited by Falcon01 on Mar 25, 2008]

So what was the verdict as far as my PS3 getting a patch to decode dts-HD?

Is it possible, but not yet implemented? Or will it never be possible for some reason?

I'm curious about whether the magazine was watching PS3 content and fast moving image on an LCD, or plasma etc. There is a MAJOR difference in quality! VIEW THE CHART

Also, well-known "HDTV Guru" Gary Merson has previously done both static -and- motion resolution tests (for fast moving images) on select displays - SEE INFO HERE - with these results (brief excerpt)...

The result, three distinct groups emerged from this test of the twenty 1080p displays. All displays in the top group were plasma HDTVs. They all had a static resolution of 1080 lines and a measured motion resolution of 830-880 lines, depending on the specific display. The next group consisted of microdisplay rear projectors, static measured 1050-1080 (depending on the display) while motion resolution ranged of 610-780 lines. The bottom group were all the LCD flat panels, with a static resolution of 400 (one panel) to 1080 lines and motion rez coming in at 360 lines (one set tested) to 600 lines. Three of the LCDs tested were 120 Hz models (one was the Sony KDL-46XBR4 reviewed here), all 120 Hz models had 600 lines of motion resolution.

Yet another reason (above) why I love Plasma TVs (like Pioneer!), along with dark blacks, deepest contrast, accurate colors, etc. Once you own a plasma, or perhaps a nice front-projection system (like Skyhawk), you'll never go back to LCD quality.

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

I totally agree with you, plasma indeed provides a superb picture quality, even upconverted DVDs look amazing, i was planning on buying one... which brands and/or models do you recommend?

Sorry Hendrix, It was a list that the BB stores got. It could be a hold back by now? But the distributer actually sent them out. DMM and other Canadian DVD distributers are still in possession of order lists for HD DVD purchasing for now. No stores are actively ordering. I have a friend that works for DMM Canada. He was the one that kinda gave me the heads up on Studio Canal. Then I went to my local BB to visit a friend and low and behold it was true? I don't think we'll see any titles here, but for European purchase there was quite a few Studio Canal, Disney Import and FOX import titles on the list. Mostly titles that I've never heard of. Anyways, it's not that important. Check Amazon in Europe, maybe you can find yourself a nice late night French half naked film or something! LOL

Well, once again people accuse us of being biased towards a specific format or brand. I can VERY clearly say that this is not the case.

However, shouldn't we bring news forward just because it is negative? Isn't it our job to make people aware of product limitations giving them a better chance of making a purchase that they will be happy with?

Now, Skyhawk, I know you love your PS3. However, this doesn't make it a perfect Blu-ray player. Magazines that report the stutter in quick movements include T3 which gave the PS3 a 2 out of 5 rating as a Blu-ray player.

I can't stop you from believing that the magazine lies about this but they have reviewed almost every Blu-ray player up to the Panasonic DMP-BD30. For me, well, you obviously think I lie as well.

All this said, we only try to inform the consumer the best we can to help them make the buying decision that is right for them. And for the record, the PS3 is not a bad machine at all. It has great value and its Blu-ray playback IS very good. Simply not the best.

As I wrote, before the Panasonic DMP-BD30 and the upcoming Profile 1.1 and 2.0 players I considered the PS3 the best Blu-ray player to buy.

[Post edited by Henning on Mar 26, 2008]

agreed

Quote:
Magazines that report the stutter in quick movements include T3

Hmmm... http://www.t3.com/search.html?q=stutter&page=1

But cool that T3 put the PS3 in third place out of 100 for the coolest gadget of 2007!

First, I'm not arguing that the PS3 may or may not have the best PQ for Blu-ray playback. However, "stutter" or dropped frames, and playback induced artifacts are a new claim that no one seems to have heard of before this. I'd like to see some screen shots and time codes so that I'll know what to look for on my 130" screen. One would think that even occasional stuttering on fast movement would make playback useless, at least it certainly would for me. Fast movement isn't exactly a rare thing in film either.

If the objective was to get this site linked on multiple AVSForum posts because of this article, the goal has certainly been met!

[Post edited by Skyhawk on Mar 26, 2008]

Whats weird is they said that the problem (stuttering and all the rest of it) didn't happen on the standalone bluray players. So this leads me to believe it's not the movie. I assume that they hooked up the PS3 to the same TV using the same HDMI cable. I also assume that they had the PS3 set to 1080P/24 output unless of course the TV they were using is not capable of 24fps.

Has anyone searched for this article online? I'm gonna check...

Well I found this article they wrote in June 07 and they have nothing but good things to say about the PQ on the PS3.

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/displayreview.php?reviewid=7278

It must be the current issue that the article is in since I cannot find it on their website.

[Post edited by Falcon01 on Mar 26, 2008]

ive only heard of this happening to films(moreso normal dvd's) when the ps3 is set for 1080p/24,and the tv is not capable of this output


AND I>>>>>KNOW<<<<<WTF IM TALKIN ABOUT

Quote:
All this said, we only try to inform the consumer the best we can to help them make the buying decision that is right for them. And for the record, the PS3 is not a bad machine at all. It has great value and its Blu-ray playback IS very good. Simply not the best.

Henning, thank you for that. It's uncommon to get an honest opinion about these things. My belief (from actual experience) is that multi purpose devices rarely have equivalent capabilities of dedicated ones. As I said, I have no plans on getting a PS3 for BR playback, so I guess I'm just going to have to wait for a dedicated, capable player, at an affordable price, even if it does take a couple of years.

BR has won, and this bit of 'anti' PS3 news isn't going to kill the format. Sure, it may scare off potential PS3 buyers, but why should anybody care as long as the news is legitimate? We'll buy when the time is right.

So has anyone tried the DTS HD audio with the new firmware update on the PS3?

Whats the verdict?

Falcon said -

Quote:
"I also assume that they had the PS3 set to 1080P/24 output unless of course the TV they were using is not capable of 24fps."

And also the above^ info referred to by another poster. Again, that's why I'm asking for the SPECIFICS for this magazine's test. Definitely if you have your Blu-ray or HD-DVD player with 1080p/24 ouput, but the TV is INCAPABLE of supporting this signal, then you could very well see 'stuttering', and would need to change the setting of the player to either 1080p/60 (standard), or 1080i/60 (interlaced).

And that brings up another note... T3 on Blu-ray - I heard that Warner mistakenly released it with 1080i, and not 1080p! At least that's what was reported for the Region A edition. Have they remastered it with 1080p? Did the magazine have the new/improved disc, or the original in 1080i ?

Because IF they were using the 1080i version, then the PS3 is not doing the deinterlacing, and instead it's done by the TV display, and according to Gary Merson VERY FEW displays correctly deinterlace 1080i film-based signals, notably those from Samsung, Sony, Vizio, Philips, Hitachi etc (although a few models 'pass'), compared to those that properly deinterlace such as Pioneer, Sharp, Toshiba, JVC, NEC, some of the newer Panasonic models, etc.

Still, if I were to make a guess, I would assume that it's the 1080p/24 issue that Falcon and mr_p-ness mentioned above - that the PS3 in the test is outputting 1080p/24 into a TV that does NOT have a special input mode for -this- signal, and can only handle 1080p/60 (the standard 1080p signal of the majority of 1080p TVs)... and that this is where the 'stuttering' is happening, from improper attempts to play a native 1080p/24 signal on a native 1080p/60-capable TV. And this DOES NOT REFLECT ANY SHORTCOMINGS, OR PERFORMANCE 'ISSUES' FROM THE PS3 ITSELF!!!

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

[Post edited by Love Hendrix! on Mar 26, 2008]

Hendrix, don't you think they would have set the standalone bluray players to 1080P/24 output as well?

It's a weird one for sure.

Falcon you misunderstood my post... IF the PS3 or SA players are set to 1080p/24 output, you MUST have -that- specific input capability on the TV display (like the Pioneer plasma etc), otherwise this 'stuttering' could be from the improper 'conversion' of the 1080p/24 signal by the TV's native 1080p/60 capability - it may not be capable of displaying a native 1080p/24 signal, and is trying to convert to it's native 1080p/60... hence stuttering - see?

That's why we need know the SPECIFICS of the magazine's test. Simple as that - would clear up the various speculations.

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

I agree with you Hendrix but what I'm saying is if the TV could not properly de-interlace 1080P/24 content wouldn't the standalone bluray players also experience the same issues?

Assuming the standalones and the PS3 were set to the same output, the same picture issues should be happening on all players. If the TV can de-interlace 1080P/24 properly than none of the players should have issues. That's why it's weird that only the PS3 was having this issue.

Like you said, we need more specifics.

Hmmm... interesting about the 24fps.

Falcon about the BD30 and PS3 outputting the same 24fps...

It is capable with the PS3 to force the 24fps setting. Even though most/all standalones obviously output 24fps, they rely on the HDMI handshake to switch to 24fps, or whatever the highest compatible setting detected is that the display can handle.

I cannot use *most* standalones with my projector @ 24fps, because players will automatically switch it off because my display fails to submit the fact it can take 24fps properly during the HDMI handshake. So I can only use players (the PS3 is one) that I can set to output 24fps no matter what.

But lets just imagine the reviewer had the PS3 with 24fps option set to "on" (forced), and mistakenly thought just because their LCD was 120Hz it could handle it natively when it couldn't. Then they attach a BD30, and assume it's outputting 24fps but really wasn't due to incompatibility information received during the HDMI handshake.

It sounds silly, but I've seen dumber things in my life...

Well at least what you're saying makes sense. These HDMI issues are getting annoying.

[Post edited by Falcon01 on Mar 26, 2008]

Falcon said -

Quote:
"If the TV can de-interlace 1080P/24 properly than none of the players should have issues."

Actually, a TV doesn't do ANY deinterlacing when receiving a progressive signal (1080p/24, 1080p/60, 720p/60, 480p/60) - it just 'passes' the sigal thru... however, ANY signal has to be scaled to the set's native resolution, and IF the TV doesn't have the capability for a pure-native-'untouched' 1080p/24 pass-thru, then, since it does 'accept' 1080p signals, it will attempt to scale it to it's native resolution, but 1080p/24 does not = 1080p/60 (without 3:2 pulldown), and hence may be why there is 'stuttering' on fast-moving images to the viewer's eyes.

Note: 3:2 pulldown is the TV (or disc player's) processing to convert an interlaced 24fps film-based signal into a 60fps progressive signal. But it's not needed (or used) with 1080p/24 signals (as the player does all of the signal processing, then passes this signal to the display, and the TV should then scale it as a 24fps signal (not 60fps) if it's capable of doing so (very important).

The Pioneer plasmas (which both you and me, and others own, like wolfen) easily do this with their 'Advanced' option under the "Pure Cinema" menu... like this -

1080p/24fps output to 1080p Pioneer plasmas = 1080p/72 (a pure multiple of 24, passed 3 times to ensure a strong signal)

1080p/24fps output to 768p Pioneer plasmas = 768p/72 (etc) - note: the popular Pioneer model #5080HD Kuro plasma has a native resolution of 768p/60, but will easily scale/display 1080p/24 signals as 768p/72

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

According to the website:

Quote:
Equipment reviewed in Home Cinema Choice is measured and quantified by Future Tech Labs, which for more than 15 years has set the standard for independent AV test & measurement. The findings of the Tech Labs are used to underpin the subjective opinions of our Reviews team, ensuring that you receive the best-possible advice when it comes to planning your next purchase

Thanks, but we don't know the SPECIFICS. I've been reading equipment reviews for years in various magazines, and EVERY setting, type of signal, etc can CHANGE and MODIFY the results when doing tests.

Consider 1080p/24... the reason we have this 'new' type of viewing capability is because it -is- an improvement over 1080p/60, 1080i/60, 720p/60 etc. So, when conducting a TEST, you must be very careful in the equipment settings, etc, so as to make an accurate judgment. I personally prefer Geoffrey Morrison's testing at Home Theater Magazine, and I subscribe to this mag (and many others).

The opinions about the PS3 mentioned in the original article would have to be examined in detail, and confirmed by other sources, before I could attempt to consider it valid. Again, all of the specifics are needed.

And as I said earlier, I have NOT seen the 'stuttering' (or artifacts etc) on my Pioneer plasma, from my PS3 (original 60GB model), and I've sent 1080i/60, 1080p/60, and 1080p/24 signals from it to my TV display. So, I cannot agree with that magazine's opinion.

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

[Post edited by Love Hendrix! on Mar 26, 2008]

Hendrix, I understand, and you certainly are a guru compared to me. However, I can't comprehend how the magazine would make such an error when doing this type of test. Now, if it was some angry HD-DVD supporter, then yeah, throw this out the window. But these guys took the time to compare different players, and not just pick on the PS3. It would be nice to have some other publication confirm this, but at the same time, it would not be a good thing for Sony. Can you imagine, these guys have a reputation (I would assume), and it wouldn't be wise for them to screw up on this type of thing, putting their credibility on the line.

Just my 2¢.

I was in BB days before Easter, and I watched a guy buy a PS3, and he had 3 Blu Ray movies and no games. I am sorry but that just makes me HOWL! Ok I know what all of the Blu Ray supporters have said about the PS3, but I mean c'mon. At least buy one game for a machine that was built to play games in the first place.

On my 56 inch Samsung DLP,(that was highly rated as being a very good set),the toshiba hda2 simply blows the ps3 away in terms of picture quality. I am not biased one way or the other about either format,I just want high definition.

Both players are hooked to the set using high quality hdmi,yet the 98 dollar toshiba continues to outperform in all arenas. Curious considering Sony and Samsungs partership in blu-ray.)

The 1080i picture on the tosh. looks like a "window" while the 1080p sony looks "soft" in comparison. Vey confusing this is!

Don' get me wrong here,the ps3 is capable of a very good image,but it just doesnt have the pop,clarity,color,sharpness,or dimension the little "cheap" player has.[Once again on my setup,this is very confusing. Maybe someday blu-ray will catch up. I sure hope so considering i loved what hddvd could do./i]

bladerunner1... your comment reflects ignorance. HD DVD and Blu-ray picture quality is IDENTICAL, and differences are NOT 'format shortcomings', but due to the content source and mastering of each movie, concert, or TV show presented. There are equally great transfers for both formats, but -also- poor quality transfers for each. Edge enhancement also can be a factor in the quality of the image (seen on many Universal HD-DVDs, etc).

Apart from the first few Blu-ray discs released in the summer of 2006 (with a 'softer' picture due to poor mastering, such as House of Flying Daggers, etc), the Blu-ray format has equally great image and sound quality as that of HD-DVD.

I speak from experience... owning both formats, and 60+ discs on EACH format in my collection, which I view on a Pioneer KURO plasma.

To put it simply, I have not yet found a great-looking HD-DVD title with picture quality that the Blu-ray format has not equaled with a great-quality image/transfer. And professional reviews of dual-format releases (Warner, Paramount) show that neither is superior to the other, if mastered equally.

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

[Post edited by Love Hendrix! on Mar 31, 2008]

Quote:
bladerunner1... your comment reflects ignorance. HD DVD and Blu-ray picture quality is IDENTICAL, and differences are NOT 'format shortcomings', but due to the content source and mastering of each movie, concert, or TV show presented. Their are equally great transfers for both formats, and also poor quality transfers for each. Edge enhancement also can be a factor in the quality of the image (seen on many Universal HD-DVDs, etc).

Apart from the first few Blu-ray discs released in the summer of 2006 (with a 'softer' picture due to poor mastering, such as House of Flying Daggers, etc), the Blu-ray format has equally great image and sound quality as that of HD-DVD.

I speak from experience... owning both formats, and 60+ discs on EACH format in my collection, which I view on a Pioneer KURO plasma.

To put it simply, I have not yet found a great-looking HD-DVD title with picture quality that the Blu-ray format has not equaled with a title featuring it's OWN great-looking image/transfer. And professional reviews of dual-format releases (Warner, Paramount) show that neither is superior to the other, if mastered equally.

Game, set, match.

As a KURO plasma owner also, I see absolutely NO difference in picture quality between HD DVD and BD. I have checked out WB movies in both formats of same titles. They both are equally superior to SD DVD. I also own both formats (PS3 & HD-A35).

Like I said,on My setup,not yours,The toshiba is better. I dont want it to to be! God no. It is what it is...

MY GEAR
SAMSUNG....I FORGET THE MODEL # TELE.
SUNFIRE THEATRE GRAND 3 PREAMP
SUNFIRE CINEMA GRAND SIGNATURE AMP 405 WPC.(clearly my fav.)
M/k all around
Monster cables all.
Toshiba hda2
PS3

I may be new here but I am far from new to home theatre... I can only state what I see...and I know all about mastering...Maybe my set just does'nt like blu-ray! I wish it did,I just bought the damn thing! I'm very happy with it overall though. I own roughly 80 high def. titles between the two formats so I have also done side by side on alot of different stuff.

Bladerunner... are your TV's picture/sharpness settings EQUAL among your 2 HDMI inputs for the Tosh HD-DVD and the PS3? Just a thought.

Interesting article by Josh Zyber (from Boston MA)...

> COMMENTARY: Specs vs. Reality

"So what if the Blu-ray edition has an extra 20 gb of space available? Are we watching the movie or watching the bit rate meter? If there were no bit rate meter, would anyone have a legitimate basis to complain? Back when they were supporting both High-Def formats, Paramount actually did what these users are demanding. They authored every movie separately for HD DVD and Blu-ray, each maximized to its format's potential. And what were the results? The same movie looked visibly identical on the bit rate maximized Blu-ray as it did on the lower bit rate HD DVD. Once again, the quality of the compression trumped other considerations regarding tech specs or bit rate."

Also...

> Blu-ray vs HD DVD (Round Two)

FIREWALL - The result was that for round two, any differences between the Blu-ray and HD DVD were just about indistinguishable. For 'Firewall,' I compared three full scenes -- the opening credit montage, an early sequence where Harrison Ford attempts to use an office worker as a decoy, and the climactic rescue in the desert house -- as well as a few sporadic short segments, and I could scarcely tell a dime's worth of difference the two formats. And that's despite the fact that the Blu-ray has a full 10GB extra to work with, as the HD DVD version of 'Firewall' was a single-layer combo DVD release (though the Blu-ray does have to squeeze in all the extras that were previously relegated to the DVD side of the combo version). But aside from a slightly darker cast on the Blu-ray, just as I noticed on my first round of Blu-ray versus HD DVD comparisons -- though it is so minor it could just as easily be attributable to slight differences in connections or the hardware -- I would say the Blu-ray and the HD DVD are like Xerox copies of each other. I highly suspect that any differences one might find noticeable are entirely hardware-specific, and not really inherent in the software.

...Ditto ETC on the other dual-format titles the reviewer compared.

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

So far the quality of the HD A2 beats the hell out of the PS3. Every HD DVD I watch blows me away. Only a couple of Blu-rays have come close...I'm guessing it's because of the PS3 sucks as a player. I look forward to low-cost standalone BR players, but how disappointed I will be if they do no better.

Yes Hendrix...The set is calibrated and I use the same mode(movie) for both. Blu-ray through the ps3 looks good,dont get me wrong here. I just thought this discussion was about "problems" w/the bluray output of the playstation,and I decided to share my thoughts. It has been wondered by many here if this test was done on different displays to make a fair judgement on the topic at hand. On my samsung DLP,model#HL-S5687W...Hddvd looks better than blu-ray. But thats really a moot point now that the format is dead. Blu-ray is very inconsistent on this set from this player. My main gripes are noise/film grain:long shots(blurry) and just a general "softness" compared to the other.

King Kong hddvd vs Pirates 2 bluray....a fair comparison?(I will exclude pixar here,cartoons always look good) Pirates looks wonderfull. Very great picture/transfer! King Kong....I am there! And what is up w/ the black levels in I am Legend ,expec. the part when Will goes in to get Sam out of the building filled w/ the nasties...GRAINY! And then I throw on" I know who killed me"(lame) the next night.....and the freakin black levels are great!(Infact I was quite "Shocked" by the whole transfer itself...very good.) On my set............The playstation 3 is inconsistent. I just want bluray to wow me, since I have been forced to go w/that format. Peace bro.

[Post edited by bladerunner1 on Apr 1, 2008]

bladerunner1 said -

"King Kong hddvd vs Pirates 2 bluray....a fair comparison? (I will exclude pixar here, cartoons always look good), Pirates looks wonderfull. Very great picture/transfer! King Kong....I am there! And what is up w/ the black levels in I am Legend, expecially the part when Will goes in to get Sam out of the building filled w/ the nasties...GRAINY! And then I throw on "I know who killed me" (lame) the next night.....and the [Blu-ray] freakin black levels are great!"

BRunner... just wait until King Kong is released one day on Blu-ray, and then compare to the HD-DVD (excellent refercence disc). I bet they will look identical.

Again, it's not the format, but the SOURCE & TRANSFER quality that is the main factor in how well a title looks in hi-def. As for your comments on GRAINY scenes in I am Legend (or films like 300, U2: Rattle and Hum etc), again this is NOT due to the format, but is normal and the way the director intended for the image to look. You can compare IAL on HD-DVD soon (rent it) to the Blu-ray in those scenes. > INFO on Film Grain

-JIMI (the Voodoo Childd)

I am Legend is reference quality. Those HD DVD fanboys waiting to buy this only on HD DVD are in for a treat.

And Hendrix, quit feeding the darn trolls!

Quote:
So far the quality of the HD A2 beats the hell out of the PS3.

Since I own both of these, I can say that this isn't the case, at least not on my 1080p 130" wide screen. Then again you said "so far", so perhaps once you buy more than 2 HD DVD and 2 blu-ray disks you'll think differently.

1080p is so yesterday....bring on 4k!

Actually, CURRENT HDMI cables are capable of 1440p resolution, although we don't have any content to support this.

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

[Post edited by Love Hendrix! on Apr 1, 2008]

Hey Hendrix....what magazine do you write for,and if none.....why not! You know they could give it to us now though(4k) but they are just trying to milk the 1080 cash cow first....and we actually buy into these tactics! "SUCKERS" (we are)

[Post edited by bladerunner1 on Apr 2, 2008]

Hey Bladerunner1... well, I don't write for any magazine, but I really try to LEARN from reading them, and subscribe to many...

Widescreen Review
Home Theater Magazine
Sound and Vision
Electronic House
Digital TV & Sound
Home Entertainment Magazine
The Perfect Vision (now online only)
BEST (Best Buy's quarterly magazine)
Popular Electronics
PC World
PC Mag
Consumer Reports
The Wall Street Journal (great daily news)
USA Today
Houston Chronicle
HDTV Inc (before they folded a year ago)
...etc.

-and many online sites (for reviews, articles, comments).

I got attracted to this site a few years ago, and joined the Msg Bd, and mainly write commentary here, but also on the AVS Forum, and occasionally a few others.

As for 1440p, I can't remember why it was not chosen for the HDTV improvement, but 720p and 1080i/p were what we are given (excellent), and with hi-def discs the improvements are not just higher resolution, but an all-around cleaner image, stronger colors and definition, and then great resolution (usually). I can enjoy these easily until a future improvement (probably greater than 1440p) is decided upon, and supported by the industry.

Been a long-time LaserDisc supporter too, since 1982, and still have a very large collection of music and movie discs, some of which have never appeared on DVD.

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

1st of all, the PS3 was never intended to be a high-end blu-ray player. It's bundled with a game system for God's sake! Videophiles used to systems costing thousands of dollars will probably notice a particle of dust on an ant's genitals far of in the background within any given movie scene so of course they've probably noted a very minor difference on the PS3's blu-ray player.

BUT

And this is a big but... they need to list what model and SKU PS3 they tested. Did they test other models and SKUs and would they give the same results? They need to also list the settings the PS3 was on including the make, model and settings of the TV used, not to mention the connections, whether it's component or HDMI. I've seen some defective video cables in addition to certain TVs give the studdering effect in movies but I have never ever seen anything close to what he's described while playing any blu-ray disc on my PS3/Onkyo/42" Pioneer Elite Plasma HDTV setup.