M$ say they never backed the wrong format.

When asked if they backed the wrong horse M$ reply was

Quote:
"What do you mean?" Xbox UK boss Neil Thompson joked with The Guardian. "The horse that we're fundamentally backing is the one that says the future of entertainment content is online digital distribution. I would argue that we backed the right horse.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=185995

wow scots nice undercover work.
guess that'll teach em that ms has been backing online this whole time and creating customer confusion. OMFG Teh Michael Bay was in righT!>!>???
eh, nvm it won't teach anyone anything because sony is the enemy, not ms.

M$ is the enemy this time, even if $ony is more evil. We know the software companies want DLC to win, its old news. Apple and MS want to control it all.

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[Post edited by rangoonth on Apr 3, 2008]

You'll never get me M$ or $ony...see...
I'll stay in my cave with my Delco, VCR and stack of old tapes...see

How many times have I got to repeat the same thing over and over again. MS, Apple and studios may want digital downloads, but the consumer doesn't!!!!!
Ok, now the four of you on here who have an OC3 connection to your house can tell me how I am wrong....

People want the shiny disc...it's all about discs people !!!!

You tell 'em Bosshog!!!

Disc media is the BEST! Bring on the sales...

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

Quote:
People want the shiny disc...it's all about discs people !!!!

I think the down turn in music CDs sales and the rise of iTunes suggest that's not the case.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7329886.stm

Yes, iTunes became the no. 1 place to buy music in less than five years.

That said, the movie business is a different thing because of file size and other factors but it is defiantly coming. People want ease of use and attractive prices and I'm sure it will be download that eventually becomes bigger than DVD.

However, Blu-ray will with no doubt have its place in the market with consumers that puts quality above all and want the best possible.

Blu-ray will be bigger than Laserdisc but rank much similar in the average consumers mind. The great thing here is that there will be an option for all of us. We who like quality can get Blu-ray and the average family that wants to rent a movie without hassle (and in decent HD quality) Friday night can download it from their Apple TV, XBOX 360, Playstation 3 or whatever box they have under their TV.

7 years from now I think the top 3 will look like this when you compare software sales:

1. Movie Downloads
2. DVD
3. Blu-ray

Just my two cents.

Quote:

7 years from now I think the top 3 will look like this when you compare software sales:

1. Movie Downloads
2. DVD
3. Blu-ray

Just my two cents.

I don't think you're to far off Henning, although I think streaming may be the choice method. Where you rent or even buy movies and add them to your own 'digital library in the sky'

Quote:
I don't think you're to far off Henning, although I think streaming may be the choice method. Where you rent or even buy movies and add them to your own 'digital library in the sky'

This is all well and good until your "digital library" becomes infected with a virus or infiltrated by a trojan that renders your collection useless...

With a physical disc, you will never become victim of a virus or worm or trojan.

With a physical disc, you can watch and rewatch whatever you choose, whenever you choose to.

With a stream feed, you are at the whim of the supplier and the network connection between you and that supplier...too many chances for failure at present.

I am about the experience and right now the physical disc provides me the content for that experience.

Streams are fine for listening to some internet radio or watching old super-bowl commercials, for free that is, but if I am laying out my hard-earned cash, I want rock-solid reliability...we ain't there yet...

Quote:
This is all well and good until your "digital library" becomes infected with a virus or infiltrated by a trojan that renders your collection useless...

With a physical disc, you will never become victim of a virus or worm or trojan.

The Trojan/Virus is not going to happen - that's like saying if you do internet banking you run the risk of losing every penny you own. - not likely and systems in place to protect you if it did.

However - your physical discs sitting in you house are vulnerable to theft, damage, or fire.

Yet another difference with music downloads vs HD videos.

A large number of people don't mind doing away with physical media when it comes to music they just to be able to listen to their music collection when they're on the move and so music files are a good way to easily transfer their music and bring with with them.

A HD movie...isn't quite the same if you have a shitty 3 inch portable screen to watch the movie on. So portability is not an advantage for HD movie downloads (that is, if it isn't infested with DRM in the first place - read further). HD material needs to be watched on a huge screen, and most people like to watch movies with others. In addition, discs and packaging provide the tangible "ownership" experience that tends to be more important for movies than music for some. And in the future, if/when network connections are blazingly fast, stable, and reliable it'll probably be the way to go - though I have a sneaky feeling that despite being a download it's probably harder to "bring a movie to a friend's place" and watch due to DRM type measures. But I suppose it's more environmentally friendly: there's no need to produce tons of plastic etc for the media.

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[Post edited by YCH on Apr 4, 2008]

Quote:
A HD movie...isn't quite the same if you have a shitty 3 inch portable screen to watch the movie on. So portability is not an advantage for HD movie downloads (that is, if it isn't infested with DRM in the first place - read further). HD material needs to be watched on a huge screen, and most people like to watch movies with others.

EXACTLY!!!!!! You people need to stop comparing the movie market with the music industry...they are completely different animals. Music is all about portability....whereas movies are not. Do you honestly think that 3" portables are going to drive the future of HD downloads???? Hell no.
When it comes to movies the general public wants a tangible item to buy and hold as a collectible, not massive 20 Gb files per movie to clog up your home PC that needs to be replaced every two years.

HD downloads may be a way of the future...but it is WAY out until it is the predominant method of buying movies as far as I am concerned.

Quote:
we ain't there yet...

You answered your own questions at the end of each of your statements.

It wont be 3" screens. It'll be set top boxes that download and play AT HOME. It's not as much a portable medium as mp3s. But when the choice is $4 a rental and gas, or $5 at home....thats where that market will take off.

Beyond that, until the system is such that purchasing is as easy as renting, then it'll be fair competition. Did you enjoy Bee Movie? Well, we'll roll your rental into a permanent ownership fee.

Viruses? Well, I know a few HD-DVD and PS3 owners staring at bricks now because firmware updates killed them. Same will happen then, but I wouldnt worry about what content you download. At the moment, XBL saves all you download to their central server so if soemthing is lost, it knows you already bought it and you redownload it. It has glitches, but the system works ok. I see that being the same method used by future systems.

Its still a few years off, but people scoffing at it being the next medium of choice might be rudely awakened. It doesnt mean YOU still cant buy disks, but JQP may not be.

Quote:
When it comes to movies the general public wants a tangible item to buy and hold as a collectible

I think you're wrong. People want to sit down in front of their TV's and select a film or program and watch it. With electronic TV guides and TV on demand from cable and Sat companies, the general public is getting more and more used to selecting from a menu and pressing play.

Why wouldn't they - when the alternative is stacks of cases gathering dust. Turning your head to 90 degrees while you search for the right case. Then putting it into the player and hope its recognized and not spat out again.

People I know that have media centers like M$ media center or my Linux MythTV setup when they buy CDs or DVDs they rip them to the media center. One of my friends has a MythTV setup with clients in various rooms in the house. Each client can browse and play what they want from a central media center living room.

if you wanna go with the portability argument, sony and other companies are developing high definition foldable screen based on organic compounds. So, imagine sitting down on a train reaching into your pocket pulling out a wallet sized device and unfolding it to 20 inches and then wqatching a movie on it.
You wanna talk about future but stick with old tech to prove your points.

It is true that once the online delivery system is truly worked out it will be a force to be reckoned with. And theprof00 raises a good point about flexible displays.

Well, I have a few reservations. I like my movies kept on hard drives (I rip all my DVDs to high capacity hard drives so I can bring them with me when I go on extended trips), but I also like the fact that I have the original stashed on the shelf. I'm just not sure how these online downloads will work with PCs etc - are they going to be proprietary video formats limiting, with some kind of DRM to make it really difficult to bring your movies with you?

And about the flexible displays. It's cool, and I sure as hell don't know how popular it's going to be for travelers if these displays truly become ubiquitous. I think these large displays will probably still be more at home...at home. These displays will probably not liked being crumpled or folded either, so taking care of them might be a pain, at least until they have the toughness of a pair of jeans. Still, flexible displays will probably never reach as common and frequent use as a pair of earbuds from a portable music player. It's one thing to listen to music when you're doing housework or walking on the street, but it's another trying to watch a movie when doing all that.

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[Post edited by YCH on Apr 4, 2008]

Quote:
People I know that have media centers like M$ media center or my Linux MythTV setup when they buy CDs or DVDs they rip them to the media center. One of my friends has a MythTV setup with clients in various rooms in the house. Each client can browse and play what they want from a central media center living room.

Scottsman I hear where ya coming from..I'm one of those guys...
What I am saying is that people like us are the minority...the general public can't even set the time on the frickin VCR. Even for people who are technically savvy it can be a challenge to get a Media Center PC working and communicating with all of your other computers devices etc.

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[Post edited by Bosshog7 on Apr 4, 2008]

But imagine when it is simplified.

How about this for a scenario

You buy your film directly from the studio using your tv remote or online or even at a kiosk . This then gives you a voucher code or something similar.
You then tell your TV provider the code via your remote. They verify the code with the studio and receive a commission from the studio for hosting the movie. The TV provider only ever need host one copy of each film yet every time someone registers their code for a film they get paid.

The studio has no discs of packaging to produce. The TV Provider hosts a single copy of a movie but might get paid 10,000 times or more depending on popularity of the title.

Additionally in your house you have a main set top box, but can add client units to it much like you do with Dect telephones.

Its not available today, but the technology is either already with us or just a few years away.

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[Post edited by Scotsman on Apr 5, 2008]

Apple iTV store will look like this. Small for your portable device, Medium for your SD image, and Large for your HD image. An the bottom link to go back to the Apple iTV store. Done Deal.

Does anyone remember that commercial where that one girl had like 200 skateboard decks in her room, or that guy that had like a zillion concert tickets on his wall?
When I started buying dvds i always made sure i kept the little sticker at the top, yaknow, the one that seals the box and has the name of the movie on it in big black letters. anyhow for a while i plastered my home entertainment center with them. That is just one of the reasons people like tangible things. We are collectors. Please stop with this download bs, because ur grabbing for straws now.

It is at least 10 years off before we start seeing a large amount of people using downloads. The people who have developed the software for distribution are like any other group that develops a tech. They will charge you up the ass for the use of it.
So, like you say, people are dl'ing on itunes or whatever, people aren't paying any less. A large part of that money is going directly to itunes. And not only that but when I want to download a song from my friends computer, I have to re-sync and delete every song from my ipod just to get it. Good luck re-syncing every time you go to blockbuster to dl a movie.
Bottom line, people aren't smart enough to know the simple way to do things. No majority cares enough to learn. And when someone comes out with a dumbed down version, they get shafted on the price, just like itunes does for it's customers.
PS: I've only ever bought 1 song from iTunes which is the only song from the cd that was online. I then passed by a used cd store and found the cd for 5 dollars. Nice to know that the song exists on media, rather than have some server tell me when my desire is "too old" for them to carry.

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[Post edited by theprof00 on Apr 6, 2008]

FYI...

> And All That COULD Have Been (criticism of Microsoft and their push for the HD-DVD, so as to stall Blu-ray adoption) - followed by reader comments about 'downloads/streaming' etc

EXCERPT -

Considering that Microsoft has only been backing HD DVD since September of 2005, their decision to push digital distribution supersedes their intention to back HD DVD, and more importantly, reinforces the notion that Microsoft was only backing the now defunct format in order to stale adoption of Blu-ray, and thus, increase the likelihood of digital distribution as a viable format. Unfortunately for them, HD DVD is now dead, and digital distribution of films is still not considered viable by the vast majority of consumers.

Now that Blu-ray has been declared the victor, it is shocking to think of what could have been if Microsoft had succeeded in getting HD DVD established as a high definition format, only to pull the rug out from the format and switch to digital distribution. For as much as the mandatory Ethernet connection was praised by HD DVD supports, its a scary thought of how that could have easily become a way to easily switch to a digital download - and much lower quality - distribution format.

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

Good One!

LH - I'm not defending M$ - far from it, but your link from bluray.com is more than slightly biased.

Quote:
Blu-ray provides consumers with the ultimate in high definition picture and sound that is not compromised by the necessity to stream it over the Internet. HD DVD's use of lower quality video...

1080p is 1080p and most independents have stated that between the two formats that was nothing to choose with regards picture quality. The only real difference was in features - and we all Know HD-DVD won that one.

You'll note Scotsman, that in my post above, I did NOT include the paragraph you cited - precisely because I (like you) disagree with that final paragraph (stating HD-DVD is of 'less quality'). My link and post above was centered rather on the Microsoft angle, and the revealing info provided, including the quotes from the UK M$ exec.

HD-DVD and Blu-ray are of equal quality (audio and video). However, as I've explained here several times previously, I believe that Blu-ray disc surfaces are better-protected (superior coating) against scratches, dirt, smudges etc (which can affect playback). From my own experience with each format (being a heavy renter), this is definitely so, having had to get unplayable HD-DVD rental titles replaced several times over the past 20 months, but not any Blu-ray titles needing to be replaced (owned a PS3 since last June).

-JIMI (the Voodoo Child)

Quote:
HD-DVD and Blu-ray are of equal quality (audio and video). However, as I've explained here several times previously, I believe that Blu-ray disc surfaces are better-protected (superior coating) against scratches, dirt, smudges etc (which can affect playback). From my own experience with each format (being a heavy renter), this is definitely so, having had to get unplayable HD-DVD rental titles replaced several times over the past 20 months, but not any Blu-ray titles needing to be replaced (owned a PS3 since last June).

LH, I wish you frequented some of the other boards that I do. I once got threatened by making that same claims you did. Naturally, I didn't take it seriously. I wish the consumers and studios were as informed (or in the studios cases, cared about the consumers) as most of the people here. If that were the case, I'm sure the format war would have been a lot different.

Quote:
Blu-ray disc surfaces are better-protected (superior coating) against scratches, dirt, smudges etc (which can affect playback). From my own experience with each format (being a heavy renter), this is definitely so, having had to get unplayable HD-DVD rental titles replaced several times over the past 20 months, but not any Blu-ray titles needing to be replaced

That's another plus for digital distribution - no surface to get scratched in the first place.

Years ago, there used to be an advertisement on the local Buffalo channels for Syms clothing...

The one thing that always stood out from those commercials was Sy Syms saying...

"An educated consumer is our best customer"

This would apply more so today than any other point in time, mainly due to the influx of B/S that permeates consumerism these days.

Quote:
EXACTLY!!!!!! You people need to stop comparing the movie market with the music industry...they are completely different animals. Music is all about portability....whereas movies are not.

Granted - it's only 720p native, but its portable and you can take it to your friends house.

http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/04/08/iogear.pmp/