Re: Politics, Environment and Rising Fuel Costs

Hey, anything to bring the weekend closer!

I just donated 3,200 grains of rice at http://www.freerice.com!

[Post edited by JPSofCA on Apr 24, 2008]

Quote:
Fuck the environment! Like any of you jackasses are going to alter the fate of this planet in any way...how dumb can you be?

I like to believe we can change anything we put our minds to. We affect each other in little ways every day. If a friend has a problem, they know they can come and talk to me. Even a simply phone call or e-mail to say hi can change how someone looks at a day. And that's only one person.

Imagine if half the USA's population got behind a movement. Then take it a step further and imagine the entire country working toward one unified goal. And on a larger scale, imagine the good the entire world can do for each other, future generations and the planet if we really wanted to.

Jason, not the only dreamer

Agreed. Even the most corrupt company GM is taking step to produce a full line of Hybrid and Hydrogen powered vehicles this year. Interestingly enough, it still takes the same amount of fossil fuels to produce Hydrogen Power, which in turn still will produce CO2 gases and hurt the enviroment, But until the scientists catch on, Bush still looks like a hero, and he's not...

What needs to change is the governements of the USA and Canada need to do is have the power companies switch to solar and wind methods. Detroit and surrounding areas are still using some coal plants for power for crying out loud! New technologies like these still create more jobs and work. Current research indicates, that solar electricity will create a 400% increase in electrical work needed in a two year period. More jobs and more money, what's wrong with that?

I'm selling one of my cars this spring/summer, to cut down on the amount of energy we use. It's not that we can't afford it, it's just a matter of principle. By fall, we should have the market guaged, on what hybrid to buy. By this time next year, the goal is to have two hybrids.

[Post edited by ReaggieP on Apr 25, 2008]

skyhawk,

Part of discussing any particular topic, is trying to see the other person's point of view. If all you can do is look down your nose and scoff at another's life situation, you're no longer discussing, you're passing judgment.

While I'm sure you and your family have your own problems, from my perspective, life is pretty good for you. I guess it all comes down to perspectives.


Jason,

I think if we cut to the chase, we're not only talking about changing habits, but, a change in philosophy and principle. That's a monumental endeavor. Unfortunately, we as Americans have been slowly moving away from the "United" States of America, and the idea of "united we stand, divided we fall", to one of "all for me, just for me". As such, we're leaning closer to the "divided we fall" part of the saying.

If we can figure out a way to get everyone to care about more than just their own lives again, we can exact change.

ReggieP,

At least the American companies that are still producing the big V8s, have fuel efficient technology going into them, like Dodge's NDS, and Chevy's new hybrid electric V8 Tahoe.



- Josh

[Post edited by Nachtkriechen on Apr 25, 2008]

Why don't we start with these small wind turbines at www.bergey.com?...if I was given a tax break/credit for it, it would be a done deal...

[Post edited by mvckalel on Apr 25, 2008]

mvkalel,

I'm not positive, but, as I understand it, if your energy producing windmill not only completely provides all of the power used in your home, if you provide MORE power than you need, you put it back into the power grid, and the power companies are forced to buy back your power from you, at a premium. That's a check that keeps coming, versus a one time government kickback.



- Josh

[Post edited by Nachtkriechen on Apr 25, 2008]

Quote:
If all you can do is look down your nose and scoff at another's life situation, you're no longer discussing, you're passing judgment.

All I said was that a person on welfare or making minimum wage has no business complaining about gas prices when they shouldn't even own a car. As I said, insurance, maintenance, and licensing are another significant cost of car ownership. If gas prices doubling or even tripling is going to kill your budget, then gas in the first place takes too high of a percentage of your total income.

But I do know that cars for white Americans in particular are a cultural necessity, probably stemming from history when survival was dependent on owning a horse to get you around to your next source of water in the old west. I heard that the penalty for stealing a horse was hanging. I suppose the same historical attitude influences many Americans towards the necessity of having a loaded gun nearby in their home for "protection".

A car (and gun) are luxuries. If the USA decided to build communities that necessitated the car to live there in order to survive, it was due to this weird attitude. But I doubt many welfare or minimum wage earners live in those suburban white gated communities anyway.

[Post edited by Skyhawk on Apr 25, 2008]

I mean, it's a very expensive investment ($50k at least) for a package and if you live in California, you could get the state to help you pay for it...nice...I'm gona have to bug my legislators...

[Post edited by mvckalel on Apr 25, 2008]

Quote:
it's a very expensive investment ($50k at least) for a package

Interesting. There's a few factors you can use to calculate whether you might even break even with such a power generating option.

1. Capital cost (including interest if you take out a loan)
2. Minus the yearly savings in not paying the electrical bill
3. Minus the income derived from over-production that goes back to the grid.
4. Minus the rebate from your state/federal government.
5. Minus the increase in equity if/when you sold.

You would have to work this out for the various time duration you would live there... 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years.

I'm a bit lazy and wouldn't know your local details, but if you do work out the numbers I'd be mighty interested in seeing the result.

skyhawk,

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. You're making a lot of assumptions about groups of people, based on hear say and speculation.


mvkalel,

I agree, the price of the technology does need to come down for this to become a reality. It would be cool if the rest of the US would get on board with tax breaks, or some type of REAL incentive for people to "go green".



- Josh