Pacino and De Niro: How the mighty have fallen

By Patrick Goldstein, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
4:31 PM PDT, April 21, 2008
I thought Francis Ford Coppola was being cranky last fall when he badmouthed Al Pacino and Robert De Niro -- the stars of Coppola's immortal "Godfather" films -- for taking parts for the money and losing their passion for doing great work. "I met both Pacino and De Niro when they were really on the come," Coppola told GQ magazine. "Now Pacino is very rich, maybe because he never spends any money he just puts it in his mattress. . . . They all live off the fat of the land."

Coppola was right on the money. The two icons of '70s New Hollywood, heroes to a generation of young actors and filmmakers, have become parodies of themselves, making payday movies and turning in performances that are hollow echoes of the electrically charged work they did in such films as "Serpico," "Dog Day Afternoon," "Mean Streets" and "Taxi Driver."

"88 Minutes," a hapless thriller, stars Pacino as a hotshot forensic psychiatrist stalked by a mysterious killer. The critics have had a field day -- when I last looked, it was the lowest-rated movie of the year on Metacritic.com. While the critics pounced on Jon Avnet for his inept pacing -- despite its title, the film actually runs for a seemingly endless 107 minutes -- it's Pacino who got a real drubbing.

The New York Times' Manohla Dargis zeroed in on what might be Pacino's most glaring failing, his vanity, describing the actor as having "a dusky orange tan that suggests a charbroiled George Hamilton and an elevated poof of hair that appears to have been engineered to put Mr. Pacino within vertical range of his female costars." Throughout the film, Pacino, who turns 68 on Friday, is surrounded by nubile young actresses who play students lusting after or enamored by him. One of the film's bizarre moments occurs when Pacino and a comely student rush back to his apartment, where, in the midst of their desperate efforts to locate the killer, she takes off her blouse and tosses it on his stairs.

De Niro's most recent film, "What Just Happened?," an inside-the-movie-biz comedy, got such an abysmal reception at Sundance that it limped out of the festival without a sale (it's expected to close the Cannes Film Festival this year). De Niro cut his longtime ties with CAA last week, defecting to Endeavor, inspiring a venomous response purportedly from one CAA agent that was e-mailed all over town. Claiming that De Niro asks for a $1-million production fee on his pictures to help fund his Tribeca empire in New York, it minces few words, saying, "Bobby held us responsible for his own greed, his own avarice and his own megalomania. And it's just like the studios now ask us: Why should we pay this guy -- who doesn't open a movie -- the payoff to his production company, just so he can add his name as a producer?"

There's more at the link below...

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-goldstein22apr22,0,6394025.story?track=mostviewed-storylevel

Well, i do agree that both actors have certainly sold out and have delivered a lot of crap over the years. However, I don't agree in pointing the finger soley at them as there are MANY age old actors that have sold out. Then again, it's much like anything in big business -- you earn the respect through hard work, you eventually get the big paycheck. It's a lot like watching the big CEO at work -- you wonder what the hell they really do all day besides take long lunches and download MP3s. It would seem they have the plush job, but many of them took the long effort to get there, so they earn the right to make 3/4 of the company profits and spend most of thier time looking important but really contribute very little. It's just the way it goes, i guess.

I was thinking about this very same thing while watching Insomnia(Al's last decent movie) the other night. My two favorite actors are old men now and just arent the same...but they are not the only ones...

Nic Cage
Jack Nicholson
Jody Foster
Harrison Ford
Tom Hanks

bladerunner, I'm not sure about what "selling out" means, but all the actors you mentioned could have retired nicely many many years ago without suffering because of high gas prices.

What motivates them to continue and sometimes act in some questionable movies/scripts is anyone's guess. Perhaps they actually like their job since they cannot be like regular people regardless? Just a thought...

[Post edited by Skyhawk on Apr 23, 2008]

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bladerunner, I'm not sure about what "selling out" means, but all the actors you mentioned could have retired nicely many many years ago without suffering because of high gas prices.

Hawk, sometimes you're an ass, but that's what I like about you! You're one of the few here that can make me laugh!

Good post Falcon. In my opinion, the last good Al Pacino movies were The Devil's Advocate (1997), and Heat (1995), although Any Given Sunday (1999) was OK too. So, he's in a slump definitely IMO.

Deniro on the other hand always seems to have a good film every year or two (he's been in many films), and I did enjoy that CIA film, The Good Shepherd on HD-DVD last year (rental).

But paying that extra fee? That's similar to what got Tom Cruise dumped by Viacom/Paramount (at the end of 2006), as CEO Summer Redstone no longer wanted to pay Cruise's annual production fee (up to $10 million a year) that offered Paramount 'first look' on his Cruise/Wagner projects. And we know that that the Cruise box appeal has been going downward for a few years now.

Note: M:I 3 is one of the very best transfers on HD-DVD.

-JIMI LOVE (the Voodoo Child)

Who said anything about "selling out"? I said they got old. Lost the edge. Whats wrong with the gas prices? They seem just fine to me.

Quote:
But paying that extra fee? That's similar to what got Tom Cruise dumped by Viacom/Paramount (at the end of 2006), as CEO Summer Redstone no longer wanted to pay Cruise's annual production fee (up to $10 million a year) that offered Paramount 'first look' on his Cruise/Wagner projects.

LMAO!!! And you call yourself a "Republican"! Yeah, it's OK for Bush and all his oil buddies to screw America, but Tom Cruise is just going too far with his measly ten-million dollar demands! You really are a piece of work, Jimi Love! What a riot!

[Post edited by Tim Raynor on Apr 23, 2008]

Wow Tim... you read my post above, and somehow thought it was in reference to "it's OK for Bush and all his oil buddies to screw America" ...? Take a deep breath and rethink dude. Here you are, yet again, lumping politics into a website discussion concerning movies...

And Tim, LACK OF PRODUCTION AND INCREASED DEMAND ON SUPPLY is what leads to high energy prices (whether oil, electricity, etc). Bush and most Republicans want to produce MORE OIL, providing a LARGER SUPPLY, so that prices will stop escalating (because of demand too, remember?).... but the Democrats don't want to, yet are the first to cry and complain about 'high energy prices'.

It's like someone on the radio said the other day... politicians cause many of our problems (higher taxes, deficits, etc) and then are the first ones complaining about it. IF they really cared about HIGH 'this' and 'that', then do something realistic about it and quit the griping!

In summary (for you Tim)...

Republicans - SUPPORT more oil production, gasoline refineries, and increased electrical energy plants. But your buddies - most Democrats - OPPOSE... and then whine about the resulting shortages, and higher prices.

So you like the Democrat 'energy' policy Tim?
-Uh, no thanks!

-JIMI LOVE (the Voodoo Child)

Jimi Love,

Again, your memory serves you so wrong! Timmy is NOT a Democrat, but you'd know that if you have read my posts over the years. I support neither party since both sides have gotten us into more messes than I care to debate. But again, you'd know that if you've kept up with me over the past couple years. Apparently, you just read what you want but still don't read everything, which is a shame because at leat my posts are short and to the point.

Tim (weeding out the spew salads)

[Post edited by Tim Raynor on Apr 24, 2008]

Nice (but lame) diversion attempt Tim!

You slam Bush and the Republican party, so that leaves ?? that can realistically be the opposition? Thank you.

Eddie may have said already that he's supporting Nader, but you haven't yet.

(again... you high-jacking threads into politics again - just weird).

-JIMI LOVE (the Voodoo Child)

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Nice (but lame) diversion attempt Tim!

No . . . actually NOT!

Quote:
You slam Bush and the Republican party, so that leaves ?? that can realistically be the opposition? Thank you.

How so? Are you that quick to judge? It could mean something else, but you need to have a broad mind to know! Shall I give you a hint, or did you drop a few brain cells over the past couple years?

[Post edited by Tim Raynor on Apr 24, 2008]

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(again... you high-jacking threads into politics again - just weird).

Yes . . . yes it is! Even I am baffled???

[Post edited by Tim Raynor on Apr 24, 2008]

Well, since JOHN MCCAIN is from your home state of Arizona, and you being in an emotional state (again) tonight, well... you'll have to 'do the right thing' and vote for a real patriot, who's provided dedicated service, is experienced, and supports a strong national energy policy (as we discussed on another thread). So, Tim Raynor should be a lock for the Republicans come November.

-JIMI LOVE (the Voodoo Child)

Uh guys, there is another thread about how lame America has become right over there.(pointing right) This thread is about how lame, once great actors have become.

Yeah, let's vote the oldest guy ever into office -- let alone a guy that looks like he has a mouth full of nutts like a chipmunk! LOL!!!

Dude, if you only knew the the communities here in ARIZONA that can't stand the guy! Most of my rich buddies up in Sedona hate him becuase he supported ADOT building a major highway through an area that should be considered a national park -- let alone the red tape they had to go through to stop him. If you live in the state, then you'd know some of the assanine things the guy has done to piss people off, but you wouldn't know that because YOU'RE NOT FROM ARIZONA and you believe everything your precious WSJ writes. Know your FACTS Jimi, know your facts!

Good point bladerunner.

Another thread Tim hijacked into the subject of politics.
(see page 1) ...he's very sensitive and emotional, but we understand it has nothing to do with Sony or Blu-ray.



-JIMI LOVE (the Voodoo Child)

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Uh guys, there is another thread about how lame America has become right over there.(pointing right) This thread is about how lame, once great actors have become.

Awe, come on Blade! I love it when Jimi makes himself look like:

FYI...

Tim Raynor Hijacking Inc at your service...



And he loves these magazines....


And of course he voted for this waffler...

Hey Love,

Before you go to bed, I saw a SAMSUNG LCD at Best Buy that looked pretty good to me. I checked the angle at a full 180-degree and the color looked awesome! It claimed to be a NEW MODEL and under two-grand at 50". However, it made this claim of folding 80mgz into 160 mgz, what the hell does that mean? I just noticed my tax retuen has made it to may bank, so I'm ready to go spend.

Tim said -

Quote:
"However, it made this claim of folding 80mgz into 160 mgz"

Say what? Don't you mean 60hz into 120hz?

That means it 'refreshes' the image faster (double) than previous LCDs, so as to cut down on 'smearing' (blur) during fast-moving images. It's definitely an improvement, but plasma is better you know. It's phospher-based pixels move so fast that '120hz processing' is not needed (since plasma is even faster).

-JIMI LOVE (the Voodoo Child)

[Post edited by Love Hendrix! on Apr 24, 2008]

FYI...

> 'Refresh Rate' (info)

-JIMI LOVE (the Voodoo Child)

I put this in another thread but I'm going to repost it here seeing how popular it is becoming. This is for people looking for a reciever that decodes all the new audio codecs,which is something we hardly ever talk about on here. (Which I find weird btw) anyway.

INTEGRA DTC-9.8 A/V PROCESSOR. (As reviewed in the new issue of Home Theater mag.)
PRICE-$1,600

"The Integra is probably the greatest value in s.s. processors I've seen to date. The video processing is superb, and it's ability to decode literally every sound format on the market today makes it a rarity and a safe bet for long term compatibility.

Honestly, at twice the price, I would call this a steal. At under $2000, I would just about call it a must have."

FYI... (for Tiim)

> 120hz and Motion Blur (good info!)

-JIMI LOVE (the Voodoo Child)

Quote:
Say what? Don't you mean 60hz into 120hz?

No dude, it said 80hrz to 160hrz. I know it's some refresh thing, but I'm sure you'd have to have the eyes ofa hwak to notice anything. Nevertheless, the set looked the best out of the lot I looked at.

PS: I did see some $9000 models in a theatre room that blew the socks off of anything!!! Must be the next gen-stuff, but it was almost enough to make me wait another couple years.

[Post edited by Tim Raynor on Apr 24, 2008]

Well.. ^that terminology is a new one for me. But, if you're sure... still, if you had a link to the model on Best Buy's site (or somewhere else) I could comment further. But yes, I'm going to bed really soon, and await tomorrow's 'action' here on the Msg Bd.

Get at least a 50" inch model or bigger!

-JIMI LOVE (the Voodoo Child)

Tim

Al and Rob say that you are never going to be "cutting edge". So just get the set you like now.

Here's one more great article...

> 1080p/24 (also relates to LCD's abilities)

By the way, great info bladerunner... I read that review the other day, and that is definitely a great piece of hardware at a fantastic price!

-JIMI LOVE (the Voodoo Child)

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Al and Rob say that you are never going to be "cutting edge". So just get the set you like now.

LMAO!!! Will do!

Quote:
Well.. ^that terminology is a new one for me. But, if you're sure... still, if you had a link to the model on Best Buy's site (or somewhere else) I could comment further. But yes, I'm going to bed really soon, and await tomorrow's 'action' here on the Msg Bd.

No prob. Thanks for the help, you've been very informative.

One last post and I'm out...

YOU TUBE video (73 seconds)
> Hi-Def Plasma Rocks (for Panasonic Viera plasma HDTVs) - a 'unique' commercial from the UK (would never be allowed for broadcast here in the USA)

-JIMI LOVE (the Voodoo Child)

yeah, I saw the plasmas and I did like what I saw. It's just that the perticular model Samsung LCD looked really good, and at 50" for a NEW MODEL, a very resaonable price. I'll probably still hunt over the weekend, but I wouldn't be disappointed if I ended up with the Samsung I saw.

Tim just so you know plasmas tend to look a little "washed-out" in stores like Bestbuy because of the lighting. I know this because I never liked the way plasmas looked in those stores which is why I used to always lean towards LCD.

Try checking out the tv's in another store with more normal lighting conditions and see what you think. Plus if you ever end up watching the movies at night with minimal lighting you will see the blacks on LCD's are not so black although they are getting better.

Also, last night I was watching Fast Times at Ridgemont High and I was sitting practically beside the TV (all the way to the left of the TV) and I could still see the image crystal clear. You should try this test yourself cause LCD cannot do this. I remember my Sharp Aquos bragged about some great viewing angle but when I watched at a sharp angle the image would get...ummmm...cloudy and washed out. The crystal clear viewing angle is a HUGE thing for me now because not everyone in my place can sit directly in front of the TV.

I'm just giving you things to look out for so you feel you got the best TV for your viewing pleasure. I imagine you're gonna have this puppy for a while.

LH I agree with your comments way back about Deniro and Pacino, and even Tom cruise. and the thread hijack pics were hilarious,....

isnt old actors what this whole mess was about?... guess if the owner is oncluded in the stealing is partly allowed. lol

I confess I still like both actors very much and I know they are still more than capable in their respective crafts. I liked Deniro in Stardust even though it wasn't a serious movie. They can't all be Oscar type movies right?

I read somewhere that these actors make way more money on movies with mediocre scripts but if the movie has a really good script the actor makes less money. Makes sense I guess and I don't blame the actors for cashing in on some movies.

Al Pacino who is one of my fav actors of all time seems a little cocky in his last few movies. A little arrogant and a little overconfident.

I wish both of these guys would make a decent movie to show us they still "have it".

On a side note, Pacino and Deniro were on Heat together but is it me or were these 2 not ever in the same scene together? I remember them talking at the restaurant scene (after Pacino pulls over Deniro on the highway) and I don't remember them really being in the same scene. Maybe it's just me but I read long ago that they didn't really like each other for some reason which surprises me with this new movie.

Quote:
On a side note, Pacino and Deniro were on Heat together but is it me or were these 2 not ever in the same scene together? I remember them talking at the restaurant scene (after Pacino pulls over Deniro on the highway) and I don't remember them really being in the same scene. Maybe it's just me but I read long ago that they didn't really like each other for some reason which surprises me with this new movie.

True, the scene was shot at seperate times, with body doubles, but it has nothing to do with them not liking each other. They both had very hectic schedules at the time and were unable to be on the set at the same time. Pretty good acting if you ask me, for each guy didn't have the other to play off of. It's probably one of my favorite scenes in the enitre film, next to Pacino's "she's got a GREAT ASS!!!"

I am pretty sure Al and Bob are starring in an upcoming movie together. Can't think of the name, but i'm pretty sure they spend alot more time together onscreen,then they did in Heat.

Still, I feel that it may be too late to make up for the lost opportunity which was Heat. That was still a great movie though. I just cant help thinking this new flick is another "PAYDAY" film to try and boost their reputations back to "great" actor status. Same with Ford, and Indy 4.

[Post edited by bladerunner1 on Apr 24, 2008]

Actors like Al Pacino, and Robert Dinero have done like other major actors of their generation. They have paid their dues. They owe us nothing after what they have given us over the years. Actors like Jack Nicholson and Morgan Freeman are in the same boat. They all have won their awards, they have all turned out some of the best performances anyone could ask of them. Why shouldn't they be free to make movies that they are interested in? Does EVERY movie they make need to be of Oscar calibur? Do they need to win awards for EVERYTHING they do? C'mon, cut these guys some slack.

Quote:
True, the scene was shot at seperate times, with body doubles, but it has nothing to do with them not liking each other. They both had very hectic schedules at the time and were unable to be on the set at the same time. Pretty good acting if you ask me, for each guy didn't have the other to play off of. It's probably one of my favorite scenes in the enitre film, next to Pacino's "she's got a GREAT ASS!!!"

I don't know how this rumor got started but it isn't true. In fact this scene was shot unrehearsed so that pacino and deniro would have some unfamiliarity. The "Great Ass" line was actually improvised by pacino, his greatness knows no bounds.

Some pics to prove it
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm206477568/tt0113277
http://ffmedia.ign.com/filmforce/image/heat-mann-pacino-deniro.jpg

Uh.... I haven't watched my copy of HEAT lately, but I definitely remember that final 'action' scene at the airport... when it was Pacino vs DeNiro in a cat-and-mouse battle on the tarmac. I don't see how they could have shot all of the angles with just stand-ins.

And that movie's gonna 'rock' on Blu-ray Hi-Def! - Bring it on Warner!

-JIMI LOVE (the Voodoo Child)