Re: Toshiba announces Super Upconversion DVD players due out in 2009

Hendrix,
A 250g disc? Then why settle for 1080? This is telling me that they are already working on the next "high def" revolution. Which I believe is 4k. Or 4000 lines of resolution. What are YOU getting from this info? Is 1080 just a stopgap?

Gents, it looks like the Funai bluray player is already on the shelves in Walmart for $298.

It's funny, in a sad sort of way -- in January of this year, we reckoned that a no-name Profile 1.1 player hitting in Q2 at $300 would seem grossly overpriced. Sadly, it still seems like a fairly decent deal. As BD players refuse to fall in price, Funai's NB500 (which is being spotted in Magnavox and Sylvania attire) has found its way into a number of Wal-Marts. Judging by the picture snapped above, you can bring home the somewhat outdated deck for a mere $298.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/05/12/funais-nb500-blu-ray-player-sliding-into-wal-mart-for-298/

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It was the figure given by NPD. Blu-Ray down 40%, DVD upscalers up 5%.

I guess you aren't sophisticated enough to understand the difference betweeen Q1 2008 to 2007 stats vs. February/08 to March/08 stats. You actually can't compare them and get a meaningful conclusion.

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Which represents 95% of shoppers.

Okay...disregarding the fact that your 95% figure doesn't recognize the evolving marketplace (i.e. just because someone doesn't own HD today doesn't mean that he/she won't own it or want it three months from now), what's your point then? I thought you were trying to point out how "Blu-ray was a mistake" because people are buying upconverting players instead? Too weak - most people aren't actively choosing between Blu-ray and $70 upconverting players right now. SUC may be a real test for how badly people do or don't want true HD material, but pointing to cheap upconverting player sales (especially using a faulty stats approach) doesn't prove anyhing as far as the future of Blu-ray or any other HD mediums. It's too early in HD's lifecycle to pin figures on how many people want HD, anyway. Most people didn't want widescreen presentations when DVDs came out, and now it's the standard for film releases. As more people get HDTVs, more people will want to buy their new content in HD. So sure a better upconversion option will be nice for DVDs that people already own (especially movies that aren't their absolute favorites) as you can't re-buy everything in your home library, but over time more and more people will likely buy HD titles going forward (instead of sticking with DVDs and upconverting).

One thing that you got right is that Toshiba's goal is to limit Blu-ray adoption (see, I can acknowledge a good point and also question other points, like most people on this message board). That's a logical and sound business move, of course. Will it work? Time will tell. You use the "less than 10%" figure as being a success for Toshiba - that's way too low to be realistic, IMO. But on the flipside, is Blu-ray a success at 20% of the market (including downloads)? I don't know - only the Blu-ray camp knows the answer to that given how much they've invested in the format already.

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Maybe I haven't noticed your posts because they weren't interesting enough?

Uh huh - you're a real gem. I guess you only find posts that don't expose your one-sided agenda "interesting".

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A 250g disc? Then why settle for 1080? This is telling me that they are already working on the next "high def" revolution. Which I believe is 4k. Or 4000 lines of resolution.

You need to exercise your imagination. There's a heck of a lot more they can do that will take up more space to improve PQ than simply throwing more pixels at the problem. Bang for the buck, it's called.

For example, how about improved dynamic range? Someday we might have video recording and display devices capable of ~14 EV. Yup, as good as the "human eye". Imagine how much space that will take at 1080p! 32-bit DR for higher ranges would be pushing it however, since a few minutes of video footage would take terebytes. ~14 EV is good enough and can be achieved in 16-bit DR encoding. And we need more chroma room - minimum 12-bit colour support. And no clipping during compression - which should maintain these values. Suddenly 250GB or even 1 Terabyte disks sound a little small for full length 1080p movies.

I hear the De Lorean is really gonna fly one day.

Hey bladerunner... you want some SUPER HI-VISION resolution? (hehe) - OK, how about UHD - Ultra High Definition Video! (info below)

Super Hi-Vision, also known as Ultra High Definition Video, UHDV, Ultra High Definition Television, UHDTV and UHD is an experimental digital video format, currently proposed by NHK of Japan.

The new format with a resolution of 7,680 × 4,320 pixels is four times as wide and four times as high (for a total of 16 times the pixel resolution) as existing HDTV, which has a maximum resolution of 1920 × 1080 pixels. According to the Yomiuri Shimbun, the Japanese Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications will be starting a public-private partnership to develop technology for UHDV in the hopes of setting an international standard for Super Hi-Vision in addition to broadcasting with it beginning in 2015.

(read more info in the link)

~ a UHDTV camera...


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-JIMI McLovin (the Voodoo Child)

FYI... 5/30/08 Update



> Toshiba plans to release Super-Upconversion DVD player "by the end of the year"

~ Toshiba 'gets high resolution' from current DVDs ~

The Yomiuri Shimbun - By the end of the year, Toshiba Corp. plans to release a DVD player capable of producing high-resolution images from regular DVDs, company sources said Thursday.

The planned release of a model compatible with the current DVD format signifies an effort by the major electronic manufacturer to recover from a humiliating setback suffered in March after announcing its decision to withdraw from its HD DVD business, the sources said.

Toshiba's withdrawal meant its defeat by a group of electronics makers, including Sony Corp., striving to promote the Blu-ray DVD format.

Standard DVD format is capable of playing a 350,000-pixel resolution. Blu-ray and other next-generation DVD formats have a resolution of about 2 million pixels, about six times greater than the current format.

Toshiba's new technology has been made possible by developing a large integrated circuit that can instantly convert images produced in the current format into high-resolution images.

This technology makes it possible to reproduce high-quality images comparable to Blu-ray video from current standard DVDs. Toshiba President Atsutoshi Nishida said his company will not market DVD players that are compatible with Blu-ray.

Instead, Toshiba intends to compete with the Blu-ray camp by selling DVD players fitted with LSIs at lower prices than those of Blu-ray models.

To achieve this goal, Toshiba will advertise its new player as a device with which consumers can enjoy a broader array of content than is available in the Blu-ray format, the sources said.

Toshiba's withdrawal decision in March marked the end of a six-year competition between the HD DVD and Blu-ray camps. Each was seeking to make its format the global standard.

_____________
-JIMI McLovin (the Voodoo Child)

[Post edited by Love Hendrix! on May 30, 2008]

For the love of Pete Jimi, did you not get enough attention as a child? Was it really neccessary to post the same thing in four threads? I think one would have made the point clear enough.

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For the love of Pete Jimi, did you not get enough attention as a child? Was it really neccessary to post the same thing in four threads? I think one would have made the point clear enough.

Come on now...play nice

News this morning:

"Walt Disney Co. chairman and CEO Bob Iger said a $300 Blu-ray Disc player would boost the format, and Wal-Mart has granted his wish.

The long-rumored $298 Magnovox player (NB500MG9) has hit shelves at the discounter, along with a $348 Samsung player (BD-P1500/XAA) and a $388 Sony player (BDPS300). The older profile players don’t offer all the bells and whistles but may mollify Blu-ray price critics, but the new Samsung will be updated by fall for BD2.0 making it a very attractive price point for retailers and the mainstream video consumer as well. This in addition to Sony's new BD350 player due this summer, which will retail for $399 and be 2.0 ready. Word of other players from Sharp, Phillips and a new entry level 2.0 player from JVC will make for a wide variety of lower priced players this fall into the holiday season"

The Samsung at $349 is BD 2.0 ready and has a slot for a memory card for BD 2.0...and can send out of the box the new audio codecs via bitstream, so the player will do everything except send the new sound formats via the analog jacks, which it only has 2. Also, the new Sony 350 is on the way at $399, which will probably go to $299 for the holidays, maybe even less. The prices are already coming down, by the time this supposed wonder player (hehe-lol) hits the market, blu-ray machines will not be that far off from the price of this player....will the consumer who already owns an upscaling player go for another upscaling player or a real high def player? I think a real one..they want to see the best on their high-def tv's....I think this holiday we will see a few of these models at $249, maybe even $199 on the big holiday sales.

I still say you cannot make prime rib out of hamburger. No matter what they do, a 480 image will NEVER look like a true high def image,,,NEVER! You cannot take a background of trees and grass and bricks and wood on homes (examples) that is already low in image resolution and make it into true 1080, the only way would be to actually re-paint digitally all the images frame by frame.

[Post edited by mntwister on May 30, 2008]