Re: Toshiba announces Super Upconversion DVD players due out in 2009

The first Sony Blu-ray player was like $1000 when it first came out in 2006 and now its like $400. Thats a pretty big price drop if you ask me. HD-DVD competition helped lower the price, but it happened. If Toshiba wants to introduce this super upconversion to the market I say let them, I just won't be buying from them. As much as I hate Sony and preferred Toshiba's HD-DVD I will not buy a "SUC" player. I want real HD, not 960p or whatever. I'm going to buy the LG BH 200 or maybe the BH300 if it will come out.

Hey Bruce! -

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"I've never seen anybody on any forum go from an HD DVD cheerleader/Blu-ray hater to a Blu-ray cheerleader/HD DVD hater in such extreme form."

Well, Blu-ray won the HD-disc format 'war'. (and I'm extremely passionate about hi-def! - hehe)

I've always liked HD-DVD too, giving the edge to Blu-ray on the extra protection added to the disc's surface (coating), as we've discussed before. IF HD-DVD had won, I'd be championing it just as strongly as Blu-ray, as like you, I'm a fan of high-def content.

Blu-ray does have a black eye with those 'firmware' compatibility issues (affecting primarly the Samsung player, one of which you own, as previously indicated), and I'm certainly critical of players that cannot play newer releases properly without a firmware update! <yet another issue that the BRDA -must- 'get behind them' and make a thing of the past if the mainstream is expected to adopt BD, and tell their friends about the quality. (a friend of mine has the same issues with his Samsung 1200 player).

Again, yes I'm a 'cheerleader' of HD , and that's both HD-DVD and Blu-ray... but only one is now alive, and growing, so my comments will reflect -that- realization. We can't change the behind-the-scenes alliances that made Blu-ray end up being the 'winner', but that is what happened (with Warner being the final factor in the battle), so now we have to move on and support it, for those that want to rent or buy great 1080p/24 hi-def content on disc.

Finally... everyone, 960 Super-Up DVD is NOT high-definition! Buy and use it (if you want) for SD-DVD, but Blu-ray is the format to support for HD.

~ Before the war ended...



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-JIMI McLovin (the Voodoo Child)

[Post edited by Love Hendrix! on May 9, 2008]

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Also, it took Apple five years to beat conventional stores in terms of music with the iPod and the iTunes Music Store.

Hmm... Henning,

Last I heard, iTunes Music Store was only the second largest retailer of music in any form in 2007, behind Walmart's CD sales (according to NPD).

And also according to the same sources, legal downloaded music from ALL online companies put together was still under 10% of sales within the music industry in 2007.

Downloaded HD content has a much bigger hill to climb. And I find it amusing that you say Blu-ray sales will NEVER exceed DVD sales, however downloading will exceed Blu-ray sales. I would have expected downloading/VOD to grab marketshare from standard DVD sales first (for obvious reasons).

I think for current or potential HD DVD/BD owners, the SUC players would be for their current SD collection, rather than DVD movies they would buy going forward. If the PQ difference between similarly-priced upscalers and SUC players is significant, then they will be very successful in my opinion. Too many consumers have way too many DVDs for it not to be a success if it's at all like they claim. Whether or how much it would affect Blu-ray's penetration rate is another story, but personally I won't be buying a DVD over Blu-ray because it's not true HD. But I'd be thrilled to see my collection get another polish.

That's true, LH. We are all cheerleaders of HD.

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The first Sony Blu-ray player was like $1000 when it first came out in 2006 and now its like $400. Thats a pretty big price drop if you ask me.

Back in 2006, average cost of gasoline is a little over two & a half dollars, now... ALMOST three & a half dollars, BEFORE SUMMER HITS. That's per gallon.
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mg_tt_usw.htm
Prices still climbing THAT WILL NO WAY MATCH the fluctuation retail price of neither blu-ray, nor HDTV screens.

14 to 15 gallons per week (average), for 52 weeks... THAT'S A PRETTY BIG PENNY, if you ask me.

[Post edited by xplaytendo on May 9, 2008]

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I think for current or potential HD DVD/BD owners, the SUC players would be for their current SD collection, rather than DVD movies they would buy going forward.

Toshiba's trying to stop 95% of consumers from migrating to Blu-Ray. Toshiba can't do anything to stop few videophiles from going Blu-Ray. But Super Upconversion will stop average J6Ps with HDTV from going Blu-Ray by minimizing the quality difference between DVD and Blu-Ray.

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Whether or how much it would affect Blu-ray's penetration rate is another story

Purpose of Super Upconversion is to not give J6Ps reasons to migrate to Blu-Ray.

As long as Toshiba can contain Blu-Ray player sales to less than 10% of market, Toshiba wins.

That's very good commentary^ above Deadmeat... and where the battle will center around - the mainstream J6P user of DVD, and whether that consumer will adopt into Blu-ray Hi-Def, or not.

Obviously I hope that Blu-ray will greatly surpass just "10%" of the market over the coming years, - but analysts say it will take 4-5 years to probably get to 50% (2012-2013), if projected adoption rates are realized.

Will depend on price and quality of the players/discs. Blu-ray must and will improve in functionality, but they need to do it by the 4th quarter of this year, or bad word of mouth will spread among the early J6P's adopting -then- (not the videophiles who already have) - and bad publicity ends up helping Toshiba's S-Up marketing plans by fall 2009.

But... once a consumer experiences REAL high-definition - an eye-opening experience on their friend's HDTV (or in-store demo) - I think more J6P's will adopt BD over time, especially when players get to $300 or less.

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-JIMI McLovin (the Voodoo Child)

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But... once a consumer experiences REAL high-definition - an eye-opening experience on their friend's HDTV (or in-store demo) - I think more J6P's will adopt BD over time, especially when players get to $300 or less.

But that is the problem Hendrix...the average in-store demo is crap to begin with.

The tv's themselves spiked to the max out of the box so they will stand the smallest chance to compete with the store's fluorescent lighting, let alone the sets around them. Some goober running an s-video, or worse, a composite video connection to some circa 1980's dirtibution amp, being driven by some sub-standard dvd player that has been running in a back room for 8 years now.

Oh, the bad comparisons just write themselves in this day and age of modern electronics retailing

I contend, to this day, that had HD-DVD in-store demos been done on properly calibrated equipment, with the BBC Planet Earth series running on it, HD-DVD might have faired much better than it did

[Post edited by r-u-serious on May 9, 2008]

I agree with you r-u-serious, but in-store demos have been improving (as well as better employee training). I've been to several stores, like a Best Buy, Fry's, etc, and they usually will have a Sony or Samsung 1080p LCD HDTV hooked up to a Blu-ray player (HDMI), and you can really tell the excellent, better hi-def image quality. Usually a Blu-ray of Pirates/Carribean 2, RV, Ultraviolet, Ratatouille, Cars etc is playing, and it looks great. Plus some stores now have dedicated 'videophile' demo rooms (with lights out) to really show off the HDTV and/or BD disc.

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-JIMI McLovin (the Voodoo Child)