Re: Toshiba announces Super Upconversion DVD players due out in 2009

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No. Lets do get into the audio part of it because the new codecs destroy DVD.

Most people still listen to sound track via their TV set speakers. Very few people have home theater set up.

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True, I still rent standard DVDs that aren't on Blu-ray. But I'm not going to actually buy one.

Based on Amazon's sales chart, you are a minority.

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Furthermore, those that will be 'content' with SUC are less likely to have HT audio connected (or connected properly) and may be using the TV speakers.

Which describes 95% of population.

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BruceAmes, FYI "SUC" is a more of a commercial jingle than a real technology. If we could magically convert 480i material into 1080p or whatever even if it took 2 weeks to process, the first market and most lucrative would be those standard def content owners who have their content broadcasted on HD cable and other mediums.

Almost all anime Blu-Ray discs sold in Japan are super upconverted from SD source material.

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do you really think Toshiba has some magic that can do it instantly in real-time as the movie plays? Think about this carefully.

Yes they do. And they plan to launch TV sets and DVD players incorporating the "magic" in Fall 2009.

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It should be self-evident that you cannot derive more information from a source than what is provided.

Super Upconversion grabs that information from adjacent frames.

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The best we can hope for ever, is to have upconversion technology that makes your standard DVDs not look like crap

Toshiba was demonstrating Super Upconversion on their highest end HDTV sets and they looked HD.

Skyhawk said -

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"It should be self-evident that you cannot derive more information from a source than what is provided. Extra erroneous information is in fact known as an "artifact" in upconversion and that is a BAD thing. Motion compensation algorithms already take many frames into account in order to detect which deinterlacing method they should selectively use for selective image portions (movement)."

^That's a good point. I've noticed sometimes that regular progressive-scan 480p often looks quite good without additional upconversion (I've done comparisons of standard DVD content), especially during scenes with motion.

It also helps explain why DVDs output at 480p, and viewed on those 'enhanced definition' 480p 50" plasmas (or 480p front-projector systems) look fantastic from around 9-10 feet. Over the years, many have praised the 480p plasmas for their high quality 'plain' display of DVD's 480progressive-scan images - as the TVs don't have to do any further processing of the signal, since 480p is the native resolution of the display.

We need a reminder that the signal on SD-DVD is always 480i (converted to p from the player and/or TV display). No matter how well an upconverter processes that original 480i disc signal, it's still actually 480 lines of encoded information, which is then artificially upconverted, but will never 'literally' be more than a native 480i signal.

But HD-DVD and Blu-ray are different (1080p/24) as we all know, and enjoy!

_____________
-JIMI McLovin (the Voodoo Child)

Skyhawk wrote:

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Hmm... Henning,

Last I heard, iTunes Music Store was only the second largest retailer of music in any form in 2007, behind Walmart's CD sales (according to NPD).

April this year the BBC reported iTunes had over taken Walmart to become the biggest seller in the US

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7329886.stm

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For you perhaps. But speak for yourself and retract the "their".

Funny though, a few months back and you thought HD DVD was the best option for any HD set. Now you're saying standard DVD is? Why the sudden switch?

First, this thread is about super upconversion. Second, all the post in this thread that I've made, have been about the Average Joe (in which I include myself). And third, well, I don't recall saying "HD DVD is the best option for any HD set"...I recall saying the most realiable and fully functional, but the thing about 'any HD set' doesn't come to mind...

Anyways, again, what I tried to imply is that since most TVs that are bought by Average Joe, Jane or Frank, they will be 720p, and in that case, upconversion will be a better option instead of paying more for the blu-ray which they will not take full advantage of the resolution...and like also stated before, they most than likely, will be listening to those movies with their TV speakers...and even when they might have a cheap HTIB (mine was $200 and it sounds really good), they don't have it setup properly (my brother told me about his friend having one of those 65" TVs and a cheap HTIB, with the speakers laid out in a row, in front of the TV )...

So no, HD DVD is not the best option for an HD set, blu-ray is when you have one of those 120hz, 1080p HDTVs hooked up to one of those expensive Onkyo receivers with those nice sets of speakers...

If you're the Average Joe and are actually stupid enough to buy an HDTV at Wal*mart or Target, then yes, it is a good chance you could get stuck with a 720p (prices are so chaep on those sets that the Average Joe just thinks their getting a great deal, but has no clue on the specks). When I shopped around over the last month, pretty much all the electronics chains I went to, 80 to 90% of the HDTVs I saw were all 1080p. So in reality, it just depends on where the Average Joe shops.

So you are going to tell me that Average Joe doesn't shop at Wal-Mart???

Come on, why spend $1000 on a 32" 1080p TV, when you can get a 40" 720p for the same price?

And provide some data for your 80%+ 1080p TVs in the market...

EDIT: btw, why are you 'stupid enough' when you buy at wal-mart or Target? I guess being able to brag about another 'classy' store is better...

[Post edited by mvckalel on May 10, 2008]

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And provide some data for your 80%+ 1080p TVs in the market...

Because when I shopped I literally counted every single set out of curiosity to see what type was obviously most popular, and guess what? There are a lot more 1080p's than you think. It's really not that hard to do when you can manage to get off your lazy ass and figure it out. Another way is to simply ask the Rep. and they'll gladly give you a count of what's on inventory through their database . . . you know, a database where you can sort by how many 1080p's are in stock. You have heard of how a dababase works on a computer, it's certainly nothing you need to go google or provide data to anyone?

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So you are going to tell me that Average Joe doesn't shop at Wal-Mart???

NO . . . I said "if" you're the Average Joe "and" are STUPID enough to shop at Wal*mart or Target! I never said the Average Joe DOSEN'T shop at Wal*mart, but I am implying that not all Average Joe's are that stupid. For the love of Pete, what's your f**king problem with me?!

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btw, why are you 'stupid enough' when you buy at wal-mart or Target?

Youy have to be kidding me? You're actually asking me that? Does quantity, selection or service ring any bells?

If it's not Walmart, it Costco or Sam's Club!!!


Hey I saw 46' VISIO 1080p LCD sets today for $999!