Re: Theatrical Review of Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
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Skyhawk
October 2007
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View profile »Science has no need to criticize ID, nor anyone's belief in the Easter Bunny, nor people who think our universe is a dust speck riding on the trunk of an elephant. There is no need to criticize, because being unempirical, these beliefs have nothing to do with science. Science does not deal with tooth fairies or Santa either. Science's role is to gain an understanding of the natural world - not to support any set of beliefs that can never be substanciated one way or the other.
What scientists object to are those who peddle such beliefs as if they were a "science" in order to make their fanatical agenda more saleable to the masses.
dgosse
May 2008
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View profile »Getting back to the movie... wasn't the whole point of the movie about the axe grinding of "mainstream sources"? I find it very useful, when I wish to know what someone really thinks, to go and ask them rather than ask the people who don't like them. So when I read that Richard Feynman said a particular thing I go and look it up to see if he really said it.
Dave, being technical right back atcha
dgosse
May 2008
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View profile »I didn't say that Hitler's actions were based on "science" I merely pointed out that his actions were not inconsistent with your own definition of moral agency. If you think your definition of moral agency is "scientific" then that's your problem. That particular definition of moral agency can be used, and has been used, to justify any behavior. See http://www.anusha.com/rapeevol.htm for an interesting example of this.
Or if you prefer Wikipedia as a source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociobiological_theories_of_rape
Dave
[Post edited by dgosse on May 15, 2008 - CDT 10:08 AM]
JJ79
January 2006
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I'm not as sure it was about the mainstream sources ax grinding as it was the ax grinding against mainstream sources. Taken just on its merits as a film-and not the subject matter-it fails to provide any sort of persuasive argument for the ID side. It goes back to 8th grade English class (maybe earlier): take into account the arguments from the other side and dissect them. "Expelled" doesn't. It makes fun of them, but never says (outside the protein argument I've already mentioned) why Darwinism "doesn't" work.
Like I've also said before, if the doc just documented the cases of each of the people who were fired from their jobs, there would have been no problem. Give me a science doc that debunks Darwin in depth and we'll talk. Otherwise, propoganda.
Jason, totally forgot about the LOST thread...
dgosse
May 2008
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View profile »There are plenty
From Michael Denton is now an evolutionist (Denton wrote "Evolution: A Theory In Crisis" and "Nature's Destiny".
http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/latest_2003/theory-in-crisis.html
For a more technical analysis
http://home.planet.nl/~gkorthof/kortho29.htm
The mathematics of evolution explained for the non mathematician. An extremely readable introduction to probability theory and its implications for Darwinian materialism.
http://creationsafaris.com/epoi_toc.htm
http://www.scimednet.org/library/reviewsN66+/N68DarwinianFairyTales.htm
That should keep you busy for a while.
Dave, you asked for it
dgosse
May 2008
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View profile »[Post edited by dgosse on May 15, 2008 - CDT 10:45 AM]
Skyhawk
October 2007
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View profile »Yes, you're right. The religous/spiritual definition of "moral agency" (whatever that is) has been used to justify any behavior. I hope you're not one of them. Regardless - keep your "ID" out of my science, and I promise not to impose science on your church, cult, or club.
And I doubt many scientific researches have been fired for simply holding beliefs that are non-empirical, provided of course that those beliefs do not alter their application of the scientific method and the objective interpretation of observational results while doing their jobs. (In other words, don't bring it to work with them - nor impose it on students). If they do, pack it in. And rightfully so.
JJ79
January 2006
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I obviously don't have the time right now to go through each of the links. Would it be fair to say you're not going to be convinced by me and I'm not going to be convinced by you?
ID is creationism in my mind and, more importantly, in the eyes of the courts. It can't be taught in schools. Until it is overturned, ID will remain in the purvue of the parents and churches to teach.
Jason, belief in evolution is better than superintelligence
Love Hendrix!
June 2006
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View profile »Did I hear the word SCIENCE?
It's "out there" all right...
...cause she blinded ME with science! - as sung by Thomas Dolby
_____________
-JIMI McLovin (the Voodoo Child)
Skooter
May 2008
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View profile »http://www.expelledexposed.com
There also have been some good interviews about it on the podcast Skepticality (http://www.skepticality.com), the official podcast of Skeptic magazine.
Finally, giving this film a 1 out of 10 was very generous.
[Post edited by Skooter on May 22, 2008 - CDT 7:47 PM]