Music to my ears

So, it seems movies may be coming to HD VoD services BEFORE they hit DVD/Blu-Ray. If the Studios can decide weather or not they can rely on HDCP as a means of copy protection then it looks as though this will be happening. Currently the law says the cable/satellite companies cannot just on a whim shut off the analog ports on their set top boxes. Well the MPAA says they should be able to do that to prevent piracy on these devices. If that all works out in the favor of the Studios/MPAA then this will happen soon. Which is yet another step in the direction of mass consumer adoption of HD VoD.

So we have several major companies (Microsoft, Amazon, Blockbuster, Apple, and Vudu) already in the HD VoD market with working business models, we have Comcast increasing their speeds to 18Mbs, and now we have HD VoD movies hitting the digital shelf before DVD/Blu-Ray. Just some things to think about...

Quote:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/16/mpaa-dangles-early-hd-vod-releases-in-exchange-for-closing-that/

spoonard... somehow in your note above, you forgot to mention "for a premium price" - mentioned in this news story.

EDIT - View this news (the complete report) on the original LINK

_____________
-JIMI McLovin (the Voodoo Child)

[Post edited by Love Hendrix! on May 16, 2008]

It's obvious that Blu Ray was not in time. VOD, as I and many others have been saying, will take over before very long cutting short the lifespan of BD. For renting I'd rather download the movie. For buying I prefer hard copy. But most people just rent (all the people I know). I'm the only one in my group of friends that buys a lot of physical media.

[Post edited by wolvinator on May 16, 2008]

Well, I'm not going to pay a PER MOVIE PREMIUM PRICE just for immediate HD rentals from my cable or satellite provider... and then what IF I want to own the hard copy (Blu-ray disc) a short time later (with all of the bonus features and best A/V quality) - ?

So, I'm going to PAY again?? - Not interested.

Give me Blu-ray rentals from Netflix and Blockbuster, and also lower-priced BD purchases, which I prefer for viewing HD content and building a collection. But, yes, this new method may appeal to some.

_____________
-JIMI McLovin (the Voodoo Child)

[Post edited by Love Hendrix! on May 16, 2008]

Side note: Cable manufactures have been broadcsting 17 to 20Mbs for the last couple of years, to provide customers HDTV service.

I know where I live we already have "Pay Per View" movies on demand with cable & smatellite. It's only obvious Hi-Def would soon hit that market. Yes, the article does say "for a premium price" but gives no indication of what that price will be. The on demand movies provided by my cable company are about $5 a flick already, so I can only assume the price for hi-def may be a few bucks more. I don't think it's going to be some out of this world price or hard to reach, but as it is with anything new in technology it always comes with a stiff penalty to the pocketbook.

Nevertheless, I'm with Jimi on this one -- much easier to just stick with your favorite rental place for hi-defs, and cheaper in the long run. However, on demand is a nice convienence if you're in the mood to see the film you want right away and don't mind spending the extra beans. I mean, say you don't have snail-mail renting, you're on the couch with a broken leg, then yes, VOD would be very handy.

Spoonie G, VoD has been out for ages and it had no effect on DVD rentals. The same can be said for HD VoD, it will not hurt Blu-ray. Some of these cable companies are controlled by the same studios that makes the films themselves ie. Time Warner. The one business that this does effect somewhat is the video rental business.

HD VoD suffers from:
Lack of 1080p picture
Lack of HD audio codecs
Lack of Bonus Features
A small library to choose from (no catalog releases)
Not all studios release at the same time with DVD/Blu-ray

Tim, you are right teh HD VoD movies are $4.99 at least on Comcast.

Quote:
Well, I'm not going to pay a PER MOVIE PREMIUM PRICE just for immediate HD rentals from my cable or satellite provider... and then what IF I want to own the hard copy (Blu-ray disc) a short time later (with all of the bonus features and best A/V quality)

Being a Blu-Ray customer, YOU ARE PAYING A PREMIUM PRICE FOR THE PLAYERS AND THE MOVIES!!! To buy and to rent (Thanks NetFlix!) The article also mantions nothing about RENTALS. It says they will be "movie studios may be ready to move towards regularly putting movies online ahead of the DVD release date" That to me says full releases, not rentals. Though i'm sure rentals would be available as well.

Blu folks are not the masses. They are the EXTREME minority right now. Business does not cater to the minority in most cases. The studios are aggressively exploring other distribution methods than Blu-Ray. This is evident with their growing interest in digital distribution methods. I mention this because there is already HD VoD boxes in probably a hundred times more houses than there are Blu-Ray players with the amount of Comcast boxes and Xbox 360's around these days. The players and the means to get the content to the players are already in place. All they have to do is use it.

Love, Tim, Tony...

You guys all sound like the 60 year old people I was trying to explain HD DVD and Blu-Ray to a couple of years ago.

Blockbuster has the best rental service. You can rent BDs and get a free rental when you turn 1 in to a store.

Spoonard... you consider quality BD hi-def renting from either Netflix or Blockbuster "paying a premium" -??

These companies provide several affordable plans. Jason (one of DVDTOWN's reviewers) indicated that he pays the minimum (lowest) monthly fee from Netflix ($8.99 I believe), and is able to receive and watch between 6 to 9 Blu-ray rentals a month(!) - so that's hardly "paying a premium" -

OK, I'm not trying to be mean, but you understand what I'm saying. You do NOT have to pay a high price to rent BDs from national distributors Netflix and Blockbuster, or some of the smaller online rental outfits.

Sure, HD rentals on download/streaming services will be appealing to some (immediate convenience obviously, which does have benefits), but for myself I prefer a proven method that provides the highest quality.

As for 1080p, most all of the services with download/streaming do not yet offer 1080p, although I've heard recently that VUDU's $295 box does have it - yet I'm not aware of how well their rental network's A/V quality is. And you have to wonder if the signal will be as smooth and consistent as watching Blu-ray on my PS3 etc.

So yes, HD downloads/streaming is going to be a new market for the studios, and will appeal to some such as yourself, but I really doubt (and disagree strongly) that it's going to overshadow or even possibly cause the 'early death' (potentially) of Blu-ray HD, although some here might want it to.

_____________
-JIMI McLovin (the Voodoo Child)

[Post edited by Love Hendrix! on May 16, 2008]

Quote:
The article also mantions nothing about RENTALS.

Spoonfed,

you have a spelling error, it's "mansions" not "mantions" . . . and yes, I'm being a smart ass!

NO TIM,

Quote:
I'm being a smart ass!

Tim! I don't have time for these TRIPE posts of yours!!

Smartassness right back atcha, buddy!

Spoonie G, your vision of what VoD may do to Blu-ray sales is a bit optimistic, but you forget like I said, this will only effect the rental aspect of the home entertainment media business. And VoD has been out for years with no success of knocking out physical disc media for rental purposes. Take this from a person who used to do alot of VoD renting, my cable bill is already at nose bleed levels. That's why VoD won't take off because when the cable companies sneeze your bill goes up. I used to pay $202.00 a month now it's $180.00. Do you honestly think I'm going to sit around and order $5.00 movies on cable? HELL NO. They are already robbing me blind as is.

[Post edited by tony1569 on May 16, 2008]

Cable is already a rip as it is! a 1000 channels of nothing but crap . . . at least most of it is. I've never bothered with On Demand, nor do I care, plus I forget it's even there. It has already proven it can't even come close to damaging physical media sales, nor will it when it goes hi-def. As I've said time and time again, it is just another choice, plain and simple.

[Post edited by Tim Raynor on May 16, 2008]

BREAKING NEWS!

This new technology has been invented that is sure to put Blu-ray out of business. It involves projecting a super high-resolution image way before it's available on ANY format (including VOD) on a huge screen with surround sound.

They're going to call it a "Movie Theater" or something like that. This will be the end of Blu-ray, standard DVD, VOD, downloading, even... gosh should I say it? SUC! Yes, it's going to happen folks. And it's only going to apprently cost 12 bucks a pop, except on Tuesdays for some odd reason.

Edit: The persistence of you HD DVD fanboys makes me laugh. Great entertainment at the very least

[Post edited by Skyhawk on May 16, 2008]

Agreed Tim.

Why are we still arguing about this??

HD VoD rentals are on their way and will be a big hit as long as we can afford the internet connection...they are also very reliable...

Again, as I've told before, the same people who use TiVo or any other DVR type box, will have no problem with the streaming rentals, and if it was for a good price and I had a good internet connection, I would subscribe in no time.

Because if I really liked the movie, I would already have the SD DVD, or blu-ray...regardless of...

Quote:
I've never bothered with On Demand, nor do I care, plus I forget it's even there.

Tim, to be honest this one I can't understand. We've had VOD longer than HD DVD and Blu-ray have been out. Everyone who has a cable box of any kind here has access to it (standard definition). Yet it has not made even a dent in physical media rentals after all this time. Sure, it's like 50 cents or a buck more than the B&M rental, but the quality really isn't that bad. You can rewind, pause, and fast-forward even. We even have a free VOD service that features about 30 to 40 movies that are past their day&date release time.

Apparently the porn VOD service is doing fairly well however. Figure that!

Quote:
Edit: The persistence of you HD DVD fanboys makes me laugh. Great entertainment at the very least

Same could be said for your, "On going sucking of the crome" off of your PS3!

Quote:
Same could be said for your, "On going sucking of the crome" off of your PS3!

See, there's the difference between me and a fanboy like yourself. If HD DVD won the war, I wouldn't be screaming "HD is dead, standard DVD will rule forever with SUC!", nor would I be saying "HD DVD is too late, VOD and downloading will kill it soon!".

Not only am I smarter than that (Doh!), I got into HD DVD first about 8 moths before Blu-ray. No, I didn't buy my HD-A2 on a fire-sale like you did when Toshiba was desparate, I paid MUCH, MUCH more. And most of those HD DVDs I own were bought before the bogo sales from my local Best Buy and Future Shop and Walmart for $32 each. And yes, and still play and enjoy them. And I rent them from zip.ca too. Check out my posts there under the same nick (skyhawk) defending zip.ca's decision to continue to rent HD DVDs.

All I can say is: "I'm glad I'm not a fanboy!" and I get to enjoy HD in all its glory regardless of format

[Post edited by Skyhawk on May 16, 2008]

Quote:
See, there's the difference between me and a fanboy like yourself. If HD DVD won the war, I wouldn't be screaming "HD is dead, standard DVD will rule forever with SUC!", nor would I be saying "HD DVD is too late, VOD and downloading will kill it soon!".

Not only am I smarter than that (Doh!), I got into HD DVD first about 8 moths before Blu-ray. No, I didn't buy my HD-A2 on a fire-sale like you did when Toshiba was desparate, I paid MUCH, MUCH more. And most of those HD DVDs I own were bought before the bogo sales from my local Best Buy and Future Shop and Walmart for $32 each. And yes, and still play and enjoy them. And I rent them from zip.ca too. Check out my posts there under the same nick (skyhawk) defending zip.ca's decision to continue to rent HD DVDs.

All I can say is: "I'm glad I'm not a fanboy!" and I get to enjoy HD in all its glory regardless of format

[Post edited by Skyhawk on May 16, 2008]

You Sir are an Idiot! I am not a Fanboy. However I did feel that HD DVD was a better format. For you to knock HD DVD Fanboys is why I made that comment. Pull your head out of your ass!

I own a Toshiba XA2 and I bought it before your A2 even hit the shelves! I paid more for my first HD DVD player and my first Blu-Ray player, than you currently spent on your whole collection... Not 100% true considering I won a A1 then sold it to buy my XA2! I bought a A3 when they hit discontinued, and it stil is a better machine than the A2. For someone that has such a huge collection of HD DVD's why did you pick such an inferior machine? Geesh...

Quote:
You Sir are an Idiot! .... For someone that has such a huge collection of HD DVD's why did you pick such an inferior machine?

I picked the HD-A2 because it was only $599 from Future Shop. The XA2 wasn't on sale, and still about $1,000 at the time. I picked up so many moves because I love movies and HD looks lovely on my Optoma HD80. So bite me dick-head.

"Ok, time for a coffee break . . . quickly, let me give you a topic. Why did Barbara Streisand NOT win the Academy Award this year? Go ahead, talk amongst yur-selfs"



[Post edited by Tim Raynor on May 16, 2008]

Quote:
I picked up so many moves because I love movies and HD looks lovely on my Optoma HD80. So bite me dick-head.

But I thought 1080p/24fps was the best... Didn't you say at one point every movie should be viewed in this? That would explain why you didn't like HD DVD as much...

Now, Now Fellas. I consider Skyhawk one of my favorite Blu brothers and ReggieP one of my favorite HDDVD supporters. I can't have this kind of fuss in the family. The both of you post some very intelligent info. So Nip it in the bud.

"Yeah man! Nip it in the BUD!"

Quote:
That would explain why you didn't like HD DVD as much.

No, I wasn't the one who said that. However that being said, I upgraded to my HD80 (capable of 24p) just a few months after buying the HD-A2, and just a couple months after buying the HC1500 which is now in our bedroom to compliment our standard CRT. In fact, when I first bought my HD-A2 I was still using my Infocus X1! Funny it was still such an incredible improvement over standard DVD. Stick that up your SUC ... umm... place.

Obviously 1080p/24fps is superiour for HD playback, and now I have the equipment to enjoy it. And yes, I have a PS3 which regardless of various noise you'll see here is a very capable Blu-ray and standard upconversion DVD player.

But you insinuating "I have more money than you and am more elite and care about my hobby more" doesn't negate the fact that you're a fanboy who suddenly tells us that VOD and downloads will take over, or that standard DVD will win for all time because of SUC. And it doesn't matter if you make a 7 digit income per year. You sir, are a fanboy nutcase.

I decided to crack a beer and barbecue some chicken and steak. It's 26 degrees celcius outside today and I'm loving the rays on the deck! Tomnorrow is supposed to be 30!

Just for your info, I don't think VOD will take over the market. I do think it will grow, but not take over the market. If there was I way I could get the movies from the Studio via direct download, I would rather pay them directly...

[Post edited by ReaggieP on May 16, 2008]

Not here. Tomorrow they're calling for rain and like 18 degrees.

[Post edited by Skyhawk on May 16, 2008]

It's a warm and rainy night here in the Big Crab Cake(Baltimore), just waiting for the wife to get home. Hey Fellas have you tried this one out yet, the wife loves it.

Hey Skyhawk, thank goodness I don't live where you live because I would have like 10 kids. And I say that with a serious .

[Post edited by tony1569 on May 16, 2008]

Quote:
Tomorrow they're calling for rain and like 18 degrees.

Isn't that snow? Hopefully thats celcius.

[Post edited by tony1569 on May 16, 2008]

LOL Tony, yeah it's 18C which equals around the mid to high 60's for those who live in the last country on earth to use the old English Impirial system

Besides, the tomato plants growing in our garden would seriously not like snow. It's just that we've been so spoiled over the last while here (like summer). Now we get spring weather? WTF?

BTW, remember that pic of my wife I took during that snowstorm thread awhile back? I took one just a few weeks later, with the snow suddenly gone and things starting to green up in the exact same place. I'm originally from a much warmer climate, and even though it seems I've been here forever, seasons still freak me right out.

[Post edited by Skyhawk on May 16, 2008]

And I'm basking in a nice, warm 92 degrees. I've been running the AC over the past month and have enjoyed nothing but sunny days for months. Man, I'm so happy to be away from cold, snow and rain! I grew up in Portland OR, and I'll take the 110 degree days of summer in Phoenix any day of the week!

Quote:
It's obvious that Blu Ray was not in time. VOD, as I and many others have been saying, will take over before very long cutting short the lifespan of BD. For renting I'd rather download the movie. For buying I prefer hard copy. But most people just rent (all the people I know). I'm the only one in my group of friends that buys a lot of physical media.

Wolvinator, DVD sales just in the U.S. were 1.092 billion units in 2007 and 1.144 billion units in 2006, so there are plenty of people buying physical media!

Those figures include sales to rental entities, of course, so VOD (and downloads) would have some impact on sales if they buy less copies, but I don't think anything approaching figures that would doom Blu-ray's viability.

Quote:
It's obvious that Blu Ray was not in time. VOD, as I and many others have been saying, will take over before very long cutting short the lifespan of BD.

LMAO!!!!

Yeah, and who are these "many others" that have been saying?
Whoever "they" are probably need to put the crack pipe down! lol
It's "obvious" that "they" need to have their head examined!
When it comes to movies, physical media has been king since the days of VHS, and it probably always will be. Again, and excuse me while I beat the dead horse and bring out the broken record, but VOD is simply . . . another . . . CHOICE! Good god man, do your research! The numbers for physical media are so overwhelming that it would take many years before VOD could ever make a dent, if even that!

[Post edited by Tim Raynor on May 17, 2008]

SD-DVD = main stream appeal
Cable or satellite TV = main stream appeal
Premium cable or satellite TV = main stream appeal
VOD = limited appeal
HD-DVD, Blu-ray, VOD, HD-VOD = niche market

That's it in a nut-shell people...by hanging out on a forum like this, we live on the technology edge of society...we have invested in a system or systems to give us a more realistic movie going experience in our living, TV, home theater rooms.

SD-DVD, cable and satellite have main stream appeal because the masses of society see or saw a benefit to this technology.

VOD and any of the HD formats on disc will remain niche markets until...

- John/Jane Q. Public sees a benefit to update his/her equipment
- the cost of this equipment comes down to be able to afford mass adoption
- the cost of cable or fios band width to drop to a point where more can afford the option (I pay about $60 a month for my 8meg cable internet)