Hero

great movie but I think the cover art could be much better

The cover art does blow. First of all, Jet Li doesn't used curved swords in the movie. Second of all, Zhang Ziyi is a tertiary character, and her appearance on the cover overemphasizes her importance as well as makes it look like she and Li might be a couple. Finally, the whole shebang is just ugly.

i loved the movie, but i think the english dub will just sound goofy. the cover art is pretty bad, and why have the producers been pushing the whole "quentin tarantino presents" thing? what did he even do with this movie? wasnt it filmed in 1998 or something?

A misleading trailer with a misleading cover for a great movie. Wonderful.

Female characters with rather small parts in movies are often played up in marketing...I mean, look at the trailers and posters for Dirty Pretty Things, for goodness sakes! The main character was a black man, but he barely even showed up in the ads. And the movie's supposed to be about the troubles and dangers of the illegal immigrant underground. Sorry, I got carried away.

The question I really wanted to ask was, would Eddie (is it Mr. Yunda, or Mr. Feng, I can never remember how that works) say of the movie, "It's poetry in motion"? :)

In my review, I wrote: "The movie is poetry of movement, if you will."

/off topic:

If I'm not mistaken, Eddie's first name is Yunda, last name's Feng. Eddie is his assumed middle name.

Very close, but not 100%.

Feng is my family name. Yun is my generational name within the Feng clan. Da is my actual given name. Yunda is my full personal name.

Eddie is a selected nickname.

I like the Hong Kong way of writing names: Tony Leung Chiu-wai, Maggie Cheung Man-yuk, Donald Chow Yun-fat. This keeps the Chinese order of names intact and also places the English first name in front of the "last name". (And yes, Chow Yun-fat's English name is Donald.)

Wait, Eddie's not black?

How does the Region 1 version compare to Guang Dong Face's original release? Is it an upgrade, or should I keep the GD Face?

- EXTERNAL LINK -
(The April 2003 ver., 2nd from the left.)

The R1 Miramax release looks better than that Guang Dong version, but you'd be replacing a crappy DVD with another crappy DVD. If I were you, then I'd wait for a re-mastered version.

According to the Internet Movie Database, the original Chinese release ran in its "extended" version 107 minutes; the USA theatrical release ran 96 minutes; all other versions released worldwide ran between 93-99 minutes.

The DVD runs 99 minutes.

John

John,
Your saying that there is at least 3 versions of this and American audiences haven???t been able to see the longest version. Wow does that suck. I would have thought that the people in control of this film would understand that Hero would visually captivate anybody. I don't see the logic in hacking even a second of this movie. This movie was one of a few movies that made me think of the film as a true piece of art

The bad transfer of "Hero" reminds me of Bertolucci's "The Last Emperor", another visual treat that is in dire need of a makeover on DVD.

dmwarner,

Well, unless we can see and compare the "extended" version's eight additional minutes to the ninety-nine minute USA DVD version, there is no way to tell if the extra minutes are worthwhile or not.

Remember, almost all directors shoot many scenes many times over, and they and their film editors cut a great deal out before realizing a final product. A longer movie does not necessarily mean a better movie.

John

"The bad transfer of "Hero" reminds me of Bertolucci's 'The Last Emperor', another visual treat that is in dire need of a makeover on DVD." --hogster17

Hock,

I dont think we want to dump everything into one basket. There is actually no comparison between how bad "The Last Emperor" is on DVD and the way "Hero" shows up. "The Last Emperor" was dreadful in its non-anamorphic transfer, with shimmering lines everywhere. On the other hand, I think most people will find "Hero" actually looks quite good. It's how much better it could have been that's slightly annoying.

John

"Right now, we're not getting the director's entire vision." --Methodic

Are you sure of that? Have you read somewhere that the "extended" version seen in China is the director's only "intended" version?

One of the misapprehensions about filmmaking is that there is ever an absolute "best" version of anything. Some directors, like George Lucas, fuss and fiddle with their films forever. Ridley Scott's Director's Cut of "Alien" is actually shorter than the theatrical release.

Before assuming that the version seen in China is the director's "entire vision," better and more definitive than the version we have in the USA on DVD, wouldn't it be prudent at least to see the two versions first?

John

Thats one of my problems, I'll never get a to see both versions.

That makes no sense. We need to respect artists' rights and not force our opinions on their visions. When did extra footage ever justify telling a director to go **** himself?

You know, there is this big uproar over the bad video transfer for this film but do you seriously think Miramax will go back and redo it and release another version? I really don't think so. If it was Sony, then I can see a Superbit edition coming but for R1 consumers, this is it, unless you want to count the R0 Guangdong Face release which is probably worse than this R1 release. From what I hear the EDKO R3 release is the best but that means owning a region-free DVD player.

What I'm trying to point out is, whatever the shortcoming of the video transfer is, it is not really that bad if you watch it on a regular-sized TV (32" and below). The flaws will only becomew more apparent if you own a big-screen TV, digital TV or projector. So, for us here in the US, this is probably the only option you will get to own one of the better films in the past decade. I don't think there is really any point in holding out just because of a less than perfect transfer. As John pointed out to me, it is really not that bad.

Hock,

The colors are off, and the "grain" is hideous. Bad is bad. :)

Eddie

Well, I didn't notice the color being "off" because I couldn't remember what it looked like in the theater. As for the grain, it did not appear to me as severe as it obviously does to Eddie.

However, I did not think the image was very sharp, very well defined, the edge bleed slightly "off." Nor were the colors as deep and rich as a higher bit rate probably would have provided.

In any case, we can all agree it is not the most perfect picture quality around, nor can I imagine BV remastering it any time soon. So I wouldn't let the minor imperfections of the picture stop me from enjoying the movie.

John

I'm with Eddie, these movies are made for the small TVs along with the growing population that has larger, HD tvs. A 42" widescreen can be had for less than a grand, that's not out of the range for the average consumer. This movie looks mediocre on that set, and that's a shame.

After watching it yesterday, I do agree that the image is mediocre. The color is not "off" as Eddie states, just not sharp. Also, more grain than I would like is definitely present. But it is still watchable and the point that I'm trying to make is, this is about the best quality that you will get in R1. I'm not supporting Miramax for putting out a horrible transfer but you just have to deal with it. We can complain all we want about it but it's not gonna change anything. Like it or not, this is the only R1 release you will get. I don't think one should forgo owning such a stunning film just because of this.

This is somewhat like the Star Wars fiasco about the audio being reversed. Many of us don't even notice it until told to look out for it. Did Lucas correct it? No! Again, we just deal with it. Will it stop me from buying the Trilogy? Obviously not!

It is the same reasoning here.

But to ignore it, especially in our position, would be silly. We have a responsibility to call out a studio for doing a bad job just as we praise them for a good one. They are still accountable.

Justin,

Both Eddie and I pointed out the flaws in the picture quality in our reviews. But Eddie still gave the film a 10/10 because he enjoyed the movie as a movie, not just as an audiovisual treat.

I don't think I would not buy something I liked just because it wasn't perfectly transferred to disc. If this were the case, everything we're watching now would be greatly inferior to high and ultra-high def in a few years, but I hope I'll continue to enjoy what I have now. "Hero" is a great film to watch, no matter if the picture quality is less than ideal.

John

Oh, I certainly agree the movie is a wonder, but I know I can get a copy of the Japanese disc to play on my region-free player that will look wonderful. I held off because I was honestly hoping Miramax wouldn't drop the ball on a movie I really, really enjoyed.

Justin,

If you could get hold of a Japanese disc, could you also perhaps borrow or rent the American copy and compare them for us?

John

Methodic,

I was addressing one of your comments: "But if you asked me, I'd want the extra minutes regardless of the director's vision."

This demonstrates a lack of respect for artistic intent on your part.

Eddie

When I was viewing the movie, I was wondering if Eddie was crazy in giving it a 10/10. U know he gave Starship troopers 10/10:). After the movie ended, I cannot understand why he did not give 11/10!!! Oh well this is the first movie where action scenes are so soothing to mind and soul. It is the lyrical depiction of mind & soul as it rages through conflicts!! Just like peotry. Eddie one thing though.. Quentin Tarantino has actually destroyed the artistic intent of the actors/director here. All we see in this artwork of the DVD is QT presents Hero. That is nasty and bad. He has nothing to do with the movie. Everyone asks if this is directed by QT. Hell no it is a pure Chinese epic!! We have seen the same thing for Iron Monkey too - QT present. I know brought this movies to the US but thats it !!!

I did notice problems with the vidoe on my 36inch TV. In the begining colors are dark with no detail/depth. However it is not that bad.!!!:)

ranjan,

when did i give "starship troopers" 10/10??? i like the movie a lot, sure, but 10/10 is too much for that one.

you make an excellent point about the action being soothing in this movie. i had not thought of that before.

eddie

Eddie,

I think I got confused!! Dean gave it a 10/10 rating. I just happen to remember your liking for the movie in one of the posts - trying to convince Tim to like it:).

--Ranjan.

Well, all I can say is that I have the Elite Group version from Japan that got the good marks at - EXTERNAL LINK -

If what it says there about the extended version is true, then I will be happy with the one I've got until somebody releases a 'cleaned up' extended edition.

Little bits of footage from the extended version are shown in one of the making-of documentaries, and the few bits they show you look super-cool. I'd love to see it.

As far as the comparison between my Japanese copy and the Region 1 version goes...forget it. There's no comparison. Better image quality all around, more literal subtitles (which I prefer), and much slicker packaging (for those who care about such things). Once again, North Americans get screwed.

"Literal translations" aren't necessarily good or accurate. For example, a literal translation of "Shi Mian Mai Fu" would be "Buried From Ten Sides", but "Shi Mian" (or "Ten Sides") means "every direction", so "Total Ambush" or "Completely Surrounded" is the best translation of the meaning.

- EXTERNAL LINK -

apparently, the problems that we've been seeing have been the results of over-brightening. :@

Regarding the discussion about the director's intended version, it seems to be the best way to find this out is to ask the director. (Okay, so getting through to them may be a problem.)

The other thing to keep in mind is that an artist isn't always the best judge of what is good and what is not as they can get too close to a work. In hindsight, he or she may change their mind because they have some distance (perhaps explaining the difference between 107 minutes and 99).

I can't help thinking of the extended Dances With Wolves. Good grief ... what a snooze that was.

I tried watching the DVD with my brightness level turned down about 10 levels lower than how I normally watch stuff on my TV. The difference is astounding. As the colors are no longer washed-out, the palette that I saw in theatres was restored!!! However, the excessive grain is still noticeable. :.(

Good God, this movie actually got a 10? I finally watched it this weekend and was extremely disappointed. I was so looking forward to this movie and had plenty of friends that loved it. I found it so freaking boring I almost fell asleep half way through it. I felt the whole wire effect, dream fantasy thing was way over used and I'm bored to death of Chinese culture films always being about some deeply seeded "honor"; as though they are the only culture who has cornered the market on the topic. Video wise, it was a beautiful film to look at, but the story did absolutely nothing for me. I honestly have to say this film is way too overrated. I???d give it about a 4/10 and that???s being nice as far as I???m concerned. Huge disappointment and by no means is it anything I would call a masterpiece . . . yawn.

Tim :.(

So, what you're trying to say, Tim, is you didn't like it? Fair enough.

Now if you average Eddie's 10 with your 4, you get something pretty close to my 8. Little consolation, eh? Oh, well. It's what makes pictures and opinions.

John

Tim,

As I wrote in the review, "Hero" is cinema of ideas and not cinema of story. You barked up the wrong tree. :)

Eddie

Eddie,

I was not barking up a tree. In fact, there were no trees around me when I wrote my reaction to the movie. I guess this turns out to be like another "Starship Troopers" thing, eh? You and John will come over to my pad and punish me by watching "Hero" over and over again, right? :D :p

Tim ;)

Tim,

Did you have Jack Daniels a day before or on the day you watched the movie? Having JD can definitely impair good movie experience;)

--Ranjan

Actually, I was sober. However, this may have been what the problem was. :o

Tim :D

Tim,

Since you mention "Hero," may I suggest another movie you might like; namely, the one about the martial artist who flings miners in every direction: "House of Flying Diggers."

John

Well, I'm in Shanghai right now, and here is what I know about the various versions of this movie on DVD:

1) In Asian locales like China, Japan, Hong Kong, etc., you can get the shorter "theatrical cut" and the longer "extended cut". No version exists that is called the "director's cut".

2) Most of the extra footage simply makes some of the fights longer.

3) There's an insert sequence of Donnie Yen giving the blind musician some money near the beginning of the movie.

4) You see a bit more of Zhang Ziyi. During the arrow attack on Zhao, there are some insert shots of Zhang Ziyi blocking arrows before Maggie Cheung and Jet Li do likewise. Zhang Ziyi's fight with Maggie Cheung is slightly extended. Finally, at the end of the movie, she tries to commit suicide in front of Jet Li to show her commitment to Tony Leung (in the "theatrical cut", she simply kneels and asks Jet Li to remember Tony Leung's words).

5) The fight between Jet Li and Tony Leung on the lake is no longer described as taking place in their minds. Rather, they fight "for real", though the fight is not to the death but simply as a way for the men to honor Maggie Cheung's sacrifice.

6) The official Chinese releases have mediocre video. The best video seems to be offered by the official Japanese editions, though there is a Korean Ultimate Edition that has hella extras (including a long version of the "making of" documentary).

7) You need to buy a combination of DVDs to get all the "Ying Xiong" love that you want. Mostly, the "theatrical cut" DVDs have the goodies, and the "extended cut" DVDs have good video/audio but no extras.

Me? I like both versions about the same. While the Zhang-Ziyi fan in me always appreciates seeing more of her, expanding her role in this movie isn't important in the grand scheme of things since she's a supporting player. Also, whether or not Jet Li and Tony Leung fight "for real" or in their minds may not ultimately matter, either--during the sequence when Jet Li tells the King the truth about everything, we learn that Jet Li and Tony Leung never fought anyway!!!

I saw what was said about the dvd's image quality, and i am looking at getting the korean release by Bitwin.

I couldn't get any reviews on that particular release. Was wondering if anyone would like to comment on tat?

Appreciate the time gentlemen...

nASH